Topics

NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?


Luke Robinett
 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 


Leslie
 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


Luke Robinett
 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


Leslie
 

I sure understand retro things.  I like to listen to OTR. And that’s pretty retro.  I love old buildings, old cars and all sorts of older things, so good luck with Dos Box.  I hope it works great for you.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


David Griffith
 

 

As I understand it and I am no expert the real barrier to running ?Dos applications in modern windows is the 64 bit architecture.

So if you have access to an older Windows running under 32 bit  Windows  Dos programs should still work though obviously NVDA would not support these.

This PC world article seems to confirm this.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3085032/how-to-run-a-dos-program-in-windows-10.html

 

If however you want to practice using Dos Commands at the OS level for disc and file operations or even bat files then of course the vast bulk of these are I think still available simply by running a command prompt in Windows for which NVDA provides good access. I think a combination of sourcing a n older 32bit architecture  for accessing Dos applications and learning the  operations available under the command prompt may be more straightforward  than trying to build in access for an emulator.

 

An alternative approach although a completely different project would be to use the new facility of Windows to now run a Linux machine  within its environment and try using the Orca screenreader in that  to support your investigation. The advantage of this is that rather than rooting back to the largely obsolete Dos past you will be exploring the possibilities of a entirely current command line interface to run and manage apps under that OS to potentially add a lot of value and possible excitement.

– that would be a fascinating project to report any accessibility possibilities there with the whole world of Linux apps available to you. If you managed to develop these skills they may even be transferable to a Chrome OS environment with their similar ability to support Linux shells opening up the possibilities  of Windows/Chrome Book interoperability models.

Certainly beyond me but you could make a name for yourself with such an investigation.

 

 

David G.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: 12 September 2020 22:24
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 

 


Luke Robinett
 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


David Griffith
 

 

Well Joseph

I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

I quote below what they say about it.

Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

 

From

https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

 

David G.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


 

Hi,

]In theory, orca shared library will work on WSL generation 2, but not completely on WSL 1 as older WSL releases support not all Linux kernel system calls. I expect Orca folks would have made necessary modifications in 2020 as the info is from 2019.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Griffith
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

 

Well Joseph

I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

I quote below what they say about it.

Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

 

From

https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

 

David G.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi,

The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 


Luke Robinett
 

Hi Joseph. Right. The DOS box consul is not a text based Consol. It supports DOS applications that run in both text and graphics modes so when it displays text, it’s actually displaying a graphical representation of text. this is why in my first post I was wondering if an NVDA add-on could be created in python that would work something like the following:
1. Monitor the dos box Consol for any changes
2. Anytime a change is detected, apply OCR to convert the consul output to text
3. Compare this OCR snapshot to the previous and announce to NVDA whatever changed, such as the display scrolling, a value on the screen changing, etc.
I am brushing up on my python as we speak and I have identified some library’s that deal with taking a screen capture of the active application as well as OCR. I’m not sure if this exceeds the limitations of what NVDA add-ons are capable of but I figure it’s worth a shot. Plus, it gives me a good project to learn python, if nothing else.


Lukasz Golonka
 

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs
called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library
for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really
interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:


Well Joseph
I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
I quote below what they say about it.
“Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

From
https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

David G.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi,
The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later





 

Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:


Well Joseph
I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
May not be understanding the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
I quote below what they say about it.
“Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

From
https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

David G.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi,
The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
Cheers,
Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
Robinett
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?



Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later





Oriana
 

"if you don't recognize this you must be under 30" 

i was going to be offended but then I remembered that I did just turn 30 so you're just about right. 

If it's just for that retro feel, what about using Talking Dosbox? (scroll below the file list for a readme describing the program)



On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:08 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>
> Well Joseph
> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
> I quote below what they say about it.
> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."
>
> From
> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca
>
> David G.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
> Lee
> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
> Robinett
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
> in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
> version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
> mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
> together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
> install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
> quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
> give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
> that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
> installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
> actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
> installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
> mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
> blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
> happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later
>
>
>
>
>









David Griffith
 

A horrible misunderstanding indeed.

A little research is obviously a dangerous thing.

Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

David G.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Lukasz Golonka
Sent: 13 September 2020 01:05
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hello,

 

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs

called Orca apparently:

- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library

for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really

interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.

- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)

and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.

 

 

--

Regards

Lukasz

 

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100

"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

 

> Well Joseph

> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.

> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.

> I quote below what they say about it.

> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."

> From

> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca

> David G.

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

>

>

> Hi,

> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.

> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.

> Cheers,

> Joseph

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Robinett

> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

>

>

> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I downloaded and installed DOS Box on two Windows ten machines a year or so ago. It is supposed to have Vocal-Eyes and/or JAWS For DOS run at start up after installation and going down to the command prompt and typing DOS Box or something similar.  While I did get the speech to run, none of the games including the three I mentioned in an earlier post would run.  Every time I tried running any of the DOS games, the system would hang.  I don't quite understand, but the last version of this DOS Box was supposed to use some aspects of NVDA as the software synthesizer while emulating the DOS environment. This is very technical and I don't quite understand how it works.  You have to create a virtual port of some sort by installing an additional piece of software. I did this, and I did get speech but as I said before, nothing really worked.


On 9/12/2020 6:26 PM, Luke Robinett wrote:
Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work, mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later 

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

The talking DOS box is actually the program I had referred to in my previous post.  i accidentally left out the 'talking' part of the title of the program.


On 9/12/2020 9:36 PM, Oriana wrote:
"if you don't recognize this you must be under 30" 

i was going to be offended but then I remembered that I did just turn 30 so you're just about right. 

If it's just for that retro feel, what about using Talking Dosbox? (scroll below the file list for a readme describing the program)



On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 8:08 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,
Ah, I see.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lukasz Golonka
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hello,

There is a horrible misunderstanding here. There are two programs called Orca apparently:
- The first one (to which David linked below) is some sort of library for performing chemical calculations and therefore is not really interesting with regard to running screen readers under WSL.
- The second one is the screen reader called Orca (it's web page is here https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)
and AFAIK it cannot be easily started under WSL as of yet.


--
Regards
Lukasz

On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 23:52:53 +0100
"David Griffith" <daj.griffith@...> wrote:

>
> Well Joseph
> I did carefully look at the orca page before sending my Mail to make sure of my facts.
> May not be understanding  the issue but they seem pretty unequivocal that Orca can run in this environment.
> I quote below what they say about it.
> “Note: the ORCA4 Linux shared library version should also work in the Windows 10 linux emulation environment."
>
> From
> https://sites.google.com/site/orcainputlibrary/setting-up-orca
>
> David G.
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph
> Lee
> Sent: 12 September 2020 23:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> The console itself must provide a way for NVDA to detect and announce text changes. Given the nature of emulators, this becoming real is highly unlikely.
> As for WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), a huge correction: you cannot run Orca on it (or if you can, it’ll require additional tweaking). The whole point of WSL is to make it possible for developers familiar with Linux tools to use a combination of Windows and Linux command-line tools and scripts for various tasks.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke
> Robinett
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 3:26 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?
>
>
>
> Hi David. Thank you for the response. Unfortunately the command prompt
> in windows 10 doesn’t provide a complete DOS environment. The last
> version of windows to support true DOS mode was windows 95, if I’m not
> mistaken. Some retro gamers get really hardcore and actually put
> together old PCs with original hardware from the 80s or 90s and then
> install an older operating system like DOS. I don’t think I want to go
> quite that far LOL so I was hoping to run one of these emulators to
> give me the same experience. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find any
> that are screen reader compatible. Some guys apparently have luck
> installing old versions of jaws for DOS within these emulators. I
> actually hunted down an old version of jaws for DOS and tried
> installing it within the emulator but I couldn’t get it to work,
> mostly because I have no idea what’s going on so I’m just typing
> blindly. I tried to use NVDA’s OCR feature to get a sense of what was
> happening but I gave up. Maybe I will give it another go later
>
>
>
>
>









-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Luke Robinett
 

Hi Oriana. I was more poking fun at myself than anyone else with the under 30 comment, Haha. :) Thanks for letting me know about talking DOS box. Will definitely check that out.


Luke Robinett
 

Hey Ron. Those games sound awesome! That’s what I loved about PC gaming back in the 90s – you would never find stuff that weird or goofy on the big gaming consoles of the day. you know, I guess I don’t really know what I’m looking for when it comes to revisiting DOS… It’s not like I have enough vision to appreciate any of the video games. I just thought it might be fun to try to write a basic program in QBasic or something. I don’t know. The more you described talking DOS box, the more I remember coming across something like that on a forum a while back. Sounds like it might represent a partial solution but it isn’t quite there yet? Still might be fun to poke around on


Stephen
 

Oh Jim, Bless him.
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>
Sent: 9/13/2020 12:28:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

Hi Group,

I also would like to find  a way to renovate DOS for only one simple reason.  There were a few games: Any Night Football, Jim Kitchen's DOS baseball game (which works more smoothly than his windows port,) and World Series Baseball. 

In particular, World Series Baseball was and still would be one of my favorites of any game I have played.  With this game, not only did it come with preconceived teams from baseball history like the 1927 Yankees, The 1965 Dodgers, The 1976 Reds and so on, but you could also put together your own teams and give them high or low batting averages and the pitcher could get high or low ERAs.  If you did this with various configurations, you could rig the scores and outcomes of games.  For laughs and giggle, I put together two teams: one was a group of sighted people from the local ham radio clubs.  The other team was a number of blind people I knew from the local area.  I gave the sighted team low batting averages and high ERAs.  I have the blind people high batting averages and low ERAs.  I called the ham radio people 'the Buffalo Hambones.'  I called the blind people 'The Buffalo Blinks.' It was really funny.  The blind team won the World Series four games to zero by astronomical scores like 22-0 and 17-2.  What's more, the audio output of the games as they were being played could be saved to a text file.  I actually had this 500 KB sized text file and for laughs and giggle, I sent it around to various friends of mine.  Yes the virtual play-by-play of the game. What a hoot!  It was great when my good sighted ham friend Tony struck out four times when facing the young blind lady pitcher. 

Boy, I wish I could have a DOS system so I could play that game again!


On 9/12/2020 5:24 PM, blindgroupsluke@... wrote:

Hi Leslie,

 

Fair question. Yup, it’s an ancient and completely outdated operating system. Retro computer stuff is a hobby / fascination of mine so I wanted to poke around and see what I could do in DOS. Maybe re-live my childhood a bit, haha. In other words, just for fun and no practical reason whatsoever.


Luke

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Leslie
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Why do you want to work with such an old environment?  When I first got a computer in 2000, Dos was very, very old, at least in computer programs.  I think I had Windows 5 when I started.  I know my teacher used to like Dos when he wanted to go deep into the computer to do certain things with programs and such.  Does Dos help you with that sort of thing?  This is just my curiosity flowing.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: blindgroupsluke@...
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020 1:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA support in DOS emulators like DosBox?

 

Hi folks. I’d like to use DosBox, a piece of software that emulates an MS-DOS environment. (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, you’re probably younger than 30. Lol.) Anyhow, DosBox simulates the text-based DOS prompt but isn’t actually a text application. As far as NVDA is concerned, the DosBox window is all graphics.

Are there any strategies for making something like this accessible for us NVDA users? I’m a developer and recently started learning Python so I can author NVDA add-ons. Could an add-on be created that monitors the DosBox screen and translates it to NVDA-readable text, perhaps employing OCR or something? If so, would anyone want to partner on such a project?

 

Thanks,

Luke

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"