Topics

Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?


 

Hello All,

          This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around.  My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

           I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

           If you feel so inclined, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Hi,

One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hello All,

          This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around.  My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

           I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

           If you feel so inclined, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Jesse Farquharson
 

Hello Brian,

I think I will skip over describing how object nav is actually used, as I'm not the best at making that part make sense. However, as an example I find it very helpful specifically in the following two programs.

The Windows settings program. Let's say you go to update and security, and then Windows Update. From there, you could use NVDA+B to hear if there is any update available for your machine, but depending on your screenreader's speed that could take a while. Alternatively, you could use object nav to navigate that area instead. Coincidentally, I don't think you can actually get to the check for updates button with just the tab key anyway.

This also lets you see more useful info in an easier to understand format, while you don't have countless other things being thrown in your face as well.

Another app as I indicated, which it is useful in... as much as I hate to admit it, is the HP Support Assistant program. Object Nav has been a necessity for use in that program. Otherwise, you miss a lot of information.

Another area I thought of just now is if you're transfering files from one place to another via cut/copy and paste. You can use object nav to monitor the progress of the transfer rather than using NVDA+B incessantly.

Hope this helps.


Sarah k Alawami
 

I use it in windows, fsTramp, discord at times, some websites to read bits of info that don't want to read, a pilot's life, sim toolkit pro, etc. Prepared (prepar3d) all the time. I have to as that interface is 100 percent inaccessible with out it, VPilot at times, etc.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 6 Aug 2020, at 9:11, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hello All,

          This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around.  My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

           I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

           If you feel so inclined, please share.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

There are places where it works well and where it doesn't. Also, very different methods workk depending on what you are navigating. On a web page, for example, if you want to move through text, that text is all going to be one object, as far as I can tell. So just numpad 7 or nine, move back or forward by line works to do this. Numpad 8 is read current line.
4 and 6 is move by word. 5 is read current word.
1 and 3 is move by caraacter. 2 is read current carachter.

But what about moving from object to object?
Use numpad insert 4 to move left by object and numpad 6 to move right by object. You may not be able to read much of anything using the object movement keys I gave first in the object you move to but that's how you read what is in the object. . Those keys are for reading what is in that specific object once you have moved to it. Is there an object in that object where you can read more? To find out, use numpad insert 2 while in that object, and if you move into one, use the move in object keys.
Perhaps there is an object above the one you are in where you can see more relevant materiall. To move up, use numpad insert numpad 8. Don't forget that if you have moved down into another object, you need to issue the command twice, once to move up to the object you were in, then again to move to the next higher object.
You can experiment by trying to move from one object to another object, then reading what, if anything is in it.

You will get a feel for this form of movement by moving. You can't really explain it well in terms of application except more or less as I have. Which is why I don't like explanations that do a lot of explaining of structures at first. Some explanation is useful such as moving into an object within an object or moving to an object above the one you are in. The one below the one you are in is more specific, the one above is more general. But aside from such explanations, the real way to learn and get a feel for what you are doing is to move in the interface.

More detailed explanations may be of interest after the person gets a feel for moving.

An example of learning by doing is that when you are in a program, when you move up, you may move from the main window to an obbject before you actually get into the main window.

In Notepad, for example, move up once. You are now in an object that says Notepad window and you can see the menu titles when you use the reading commands I gave initially. You can open a menu by moving to a menu, then moving down to a lower object.

If you have moved into this window, moving up again will take you to the desktop window. If you want to move back down to the Notepad main window, the easiest way is to alt tab out of it then alt tab back. If you are using the default setting that the object navigator follows where you are, it is now back in the main window of the program.

In Notepad, when you are in the main window, if a document is opened, it is all one object. You can read it all using the reading keys I gave at the beginning of this discussion.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hello All,

This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around. My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

If you feel so inclined, please share.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Gene
 

The discussion with corrections. I see I made this or that error in mhy first description so I'm sending it again making corrections. Use the corrected version below my signature.

Gene

There are places where it works well and where it doesn't. Also, very
different methods workk depending on what you are navigating. On a web
page, for example, if you want to move through text, that text is all going
to be one object, as far as I can tell. So just numpad 7 or nine, move back
or forward by line works to do this. Numpad 8 is read current line.
4 and 6 is move by word. 5 is read current word.
1 and 3 is move by caraacter. 2 is read current carachter.

But what about moving from object to object?
Use numpad insert 4 to move left by object and numpad insert 6 to move right by
object. You may not be able to read much of anything using the object
reading keys I gave first in the object you move to but that's how you read
what is in the object. . Those keys are for reading what is in that
specific object once you have moved to it. Is there an object in that
object where you can read more? To find out, use numpad insert 2 while in
that object, and if you move into one, use the read in object keys.
Perhaps there is an object above the one you are in where you can see more
relevant materiall. To move up, use numpad insert numpad 8. Don't forget
that if you have moved down into another object, you need to issue the
command twice, once to move up to the object you were in, then again to move
to the next higher object.
You can experiment by trying to move from one object to another object, then
reading what, if anything is in it.

You will get a feel for this form of movement by moving. You can't really
explain it well in terms of application except more or less as I have.
Which is why I don't like explanations that do a lot of explaining of
structures at first. Some explanation is useful such as moving into an
object within an object or moving to an object above the one you are in.
The one below the one you are in is more specific, the one above is more
general. But aside from such explanations, the real way to learn and get a
feel for what you are doing is to move in the interface.

More detailed explanations may be of interest after the person gets a feel
for moving.

An example of learning by doing is that when you are in a program, when you
move up, you may move from the main window to an obbject before you actually
get into the main window.

In Notepad, for example, move up once. You are now in an object that says
Notepad window and you can see the menu titles when you use the reading
commands I gave initially. You can open a menu by moving to a menu, then
moving down to a lower object.

If you have moved into this window, moving up again will take you to the
desktop window. If you want to move back down to the Notepad main window,
the easiest way is to alt tab out of it then alt tab back. If you are using
the default setting that the object navigator follows where you are, it is
now back in the main window of the program.

In Notepad, when you are in the main window, if a document is opened, it is
all one object. You can read it all using the reading keys I gave at the
beginning of this discussion.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hello All,

This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head
around. My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the
abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not
unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc.
where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it
travels when you do.

I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object
navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the
hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that
we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has
described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

If you feel so inclined, please share.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Gene
 

Here is another correction:
I said that in the Notepad object where you see the menus, you can open them by moving down. That isn't correct. You will see other things if you move down but to open a menu, move the mouse to the menu name then left click. Then use the move down command to move in to the opened menu.
Evidently, the opened menu is another objecgt, available below the object you are in once you open the menu.

I work with objects a reasonable amount but I don't do this sort of thing generally, the means to do so being available in the program interface. I caught the mistake when I tried to do what I described now. I'm sorry about the error. I thought I remembered it correctly and only thought of making sure after I sent the description.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

The discussion with corrections. I see I made this or that error in mhy
first description so I'm sending it again making corrections. Use the
corrected version below my signature.

Gene

There are places where it works well and where it doesn't. Also, very
different methods workk depending on what you are navigating. On a web
page, for example, if you want to move through text, that text is all going
to be one object, as far as I can tell. So just numpad 7 or nine, move back
or forward by line works to do this. Numpad 8 is read current line.
4 and 6 is move by word. 5 is read current word.
1 and 3 is move by caraacter. 2 is read current carachter.

But what about moving from object to object?
Use numpad insert 4 to move left by object and numpad insert 6 to move right
by
object. You may not be able to read much of anything using the object
reading keys I gave first in the object you move to but that's how you read
what is in the object. . Those keys are for reading what is in that
specific object once you have moved to it. Is there an object in that
object where you can read more? To find out, use numpad insert 2 while in
that object, and if you move into one, use the read in object keys.
Perhaps there is an object above the one you are in where you can see more
relevant materiall. To move up, use numpad insert numpad 8. Don't forget
that if you have moved down into another object, you need to issue the
command twice, once to move up to the object you were in, then again to move
to the next higher object.
You can experiment by trying to move from one object to another object, then
reading what, if anything is in it.

You will get a feel for this form of movement by moving. You can't really
explain it well in terms of application except more or less as I have.
Which is why I don't like explanations that do a lot of explaining of
structures at first. Some explanation is useful such as moving into an
object within an object or moving to an object above the one you are in.
The one below the one you are in is more specific, the one above is more
general. But aside from such explanations, the real way to learn and get a
feel for what you are doing is to move in the interface.

More detailed explanations may be of interest after the person gets a feel
for moving.

An example of learning by doing is that when you are in a program, when you
move up, you may move from the main window to an obbject before you actually
get into the main window.

In Notepad, for example, move up once. You are now in an object that says
Notepad window and you can see the menu titles when you use the reading
commands I gave initially. You can open a menu by moving to a menu, then
moving down to a lower object.

If you have moved into this window, moving up again will take you to the
desktop window. If you want to move back down to the Notepad main window,
the easiest way is to alt tab out of it then alt tab back. If you are using
the default setting that the object navigator follows where you are, it is
now back in the main window of the program.

In Notepad, when you are in the main window, if a document is opened, it is
all one object. You can read it all using the reading keys I gave at the
beginning of this discussion.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hello All,

This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head
around. My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the
abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not
unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc.
where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it
travels when you do.

I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object
navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the
hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that
we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has
described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

If you feel so inclined, please share.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Gene
 

Also, every menu item is a different object so use numpad insert 6 and 4 to move from menu item to menu item once you are in the menu you opened with the mouse. If you try to use the reading commands once you move down into the file menu, for example, you will see that you cann't move. So the thing to do is to try moving from one object to another object.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 12:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Here is another correction:
I said that in the Notepad object where you see the menus, you can open them
by moving down. That isn't correct. You will see other things if you move
down but to open a menu, move the mouse to the menu name then left click.
Then use the move down command to move in to the opened menu.
Evidently, the opened menu is another objecgt, available below the object
you are in once you open the menu.

I work with objects a reasonable amount but I don't do this sort of thing
generally, the means to do so being available in the program interface. I
caught the mistake when I tried to do what I described now. I'm sorry about
the error. I thought I remembered it correctly and only thought of making
sure after I sent the description.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

The discussion with corrections. I see I made this or that error in mhy
first description so I'm sending it again making corrections. Use the
corrected version below my signature.

Gene

There are places where it works well and where it doesn't. Also, very
different methods workk depending on what you are navigating. On a web
page, for example, if you want to move through text, that text is all going
to be one object, as far as I can tell. So just numpad 7 or nine, move back
or forward by line works to do this. Numpad 8 is read current line.
4 and 6 is move by word. 5 is read current word.
1 and 3 is move by caraacter. 2 is read current carachter.

But what about moving from object to object?
Use numpad insert 4 to move left by object and numpad insert 6 to move right
by
object. You may not be able to read much of anything using the object
reading keys I gave first in the object you move to but that's how you read
what is in the object. . Those keys are for reading what is in that
specific object once you have moved to it. Is there an object in that
object where you can read more? To find out, use numpad insert 2 while in
that object, and if you move into one, use the read in object keys.
Perhaps there is an object above the one you are in where you can see more
relevant materiall. To move up, use numpad insert numpad 8. Don't forget
that if you have moved down into another object, you need to issue the
command twice, once to move up to the object you were in, then again to move
to the next higher object.
You can experiment by trying to move from one object to another object, then
reading what, if anything is in it.

You will get a feel for this form of movement by moving. You can't really
explain it well in terms of application except more or less as I have.
Which is why I don't like explanations that do a lot of explaining of
structures at first. Some explanation is useful such as moving into an
object within an object or moving to an object above the one you are in.
The one below the one you are in is more specific, the one above is more
general. But aside from such explanations, the real way to learn and get a
feel for what you are doing is to move in the interface.

More detailed explanations may be of interest after the person gets a feel
for moving.

An example of learning by doing is that when you are in a program, when you
move up, you may move from the main window to an obbject before you actually
get into the main window.

In Notepad, for example, move up once. You are now in an object that says
Notepad window and you can see the menu titles when you use the reading
commands I gave initially. You can open a menu by moving to a menu, then
moving down to a lower object.

If you have moved into this window, moving up again will take you to the
desktop window. If you want to move back down to the Notepad main window,
the easiest way is to alt tab out of it then alt tab back. If you are using
the default setting that the object navigator follows where you are, it is
now back in the main window of the program.

In Notepad, when you are in the main window, if a document is opened, it is
all one object. You can read it all using the reading keys I gave at the
beginning of this discussion.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hello All,

This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head
around. My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the
abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not
unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc.
where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it
travels when you do.

I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object
navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the
hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that
we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has
described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

If you feel so inclined, please share.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde


Chris Mullins
 

                               

Hi Jesse

The Update and Security/Windows update controls are all accessible via the tab key, although I have noticed that when you tab to “Windows Update” in the sub categories list you now have to press enter on it to access the controls for that sub-category whereas it would previously default to selecting and displaying the controls for the 1st sub category listed.  The “Virtual Review” add-on is very useful for reading additional information in windows that cannot be tabbed to.

 

Cheers

Chris         

From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: 06 August 2020 17:14
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

Hello Brian,

I think I will skip over describing how object nav is actually used, as I'm not the best at making that part make sense. However, as an example I find it very helpful specifically in the following two programs.

The Windows settings program. Let's say you go to update and security, and then Windows Update. From there, you could use NVDA+B to hear if there is any update available for your machine, but depending on your screenreader's speed that could take a while. Alternatively, you could use object nav to navigate that area instead. Coincidentally, I don't think you can actually get to the check for updates button with just the tab key anyway.

This also lets you see more useful info in an easier to understand format, while you don't have countless other things being thrown in your face as well.

Another app as I indicated, which it is useful in... as much as I hate to admit it, is the HP Support Assistant program. Object Nav has been a necessity for use in that program. Otherwise, you miss a lot of information.

Another area I thought of just now is if you're transfering files from one place to another via cut/copy and paste. You can use object nav to monitor the progress of the transfer rather than using NVDA+B incessantly.

Hope this helps.

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually when you go to http://mee6.xyz and go to its dashboard you have to move from object to object to access list boxes etc. Not all the time, but most of the time if you want to make sense of the page.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 6 Aug 2020, at 9:42, Gene wrote:

There are places where it works well and where it doesn't. Also, very different methods workk depending on what you are navigating. On a web page, for example, if you want to move through text, that text is all going to be one object, as far as I can tell. So just numpad 7 or nine, move back or forward by line works to do this. Numpad 8 is read current line.
4 and 6 is move by word. 5 is read current word.
1 and 3 is move by caraacter. 2 is read current carachter.

But what about moving from object to object?
Use numpad insert 4 to move left by object and numpad 6 to move right by object. You may not be able to read much of anything using the object movement keys I gave first in the object you move to but that's how you read what is in the object. . Those keys are for reading what is in that specific object once you have moved to it. Is there an object in that object where you can read more? To find out, use numpad insert 2 while in that object, and if you move into one, use the move in object keys.
Perhaps there is an object above the one you are in where you can see more relevant materiall. To move up, use numpad insert numpad 8. Don't forget that if you have moved down into another object, you need to issue the command twice, once to move up to the object you were in, then again to move to the next higher object.
You can experiment by trying to move from one object to another object, then reading what, if anything is in it.

You will get a feel for this form of movement by moving. You can't really explain it well in terms of application except more or less as I have. Which is why I don't like explanations that do a lot of explaining of structures at first. Some explanation is useful such as moving into an object within an object or moving to an object above the one you are in. The one below the one you are in is more specific, the one above is more general. But aside from such explanations, the real way to learn and get a feel for what you are doing is to move in the interface.

More detailed explanations may be of interest after the person gets a feel for moving.

An example of learning by doing is that when you are in a program, when you move up, you may move from the main window to an obbject before you actually get into the main window.

In Notepad, for example, move up once. You are now in an object that says Notepad window and you can see the menu titles when you use the reading commands I gave initially. You can open a menu by moving to a menu, then moving down to a lower object.

If you have moved into this window, moving up again will take you to the desktop window. If you want to move back down to the Notepad main window, the easiest way is to alt tab out of it then alt tab back. If you are using the default setting that the object navigator follows where you are, it is now back in the main window of the program.

In Notepad, when you are in the main window, if a document is opened, it is all one object. You can read it all using the reading keys I gave at the beginning of this discussion.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 11:07 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hello All,

This is a navigation method that I really have yet to wrap my head around. My intent with this topic is not to trigger a discussion of the abstract concepts of object navigation, though they're certainly not unwelcome, but to elicit a collection of specific programs/dialogs/etc. where you personally use object navigation to get around in it and how it travels when you do.

I have not had a lot of luck yet when just playing with object navigation at random, and figure I (and perhaps many others) might "get the hang of it" much better if we were trying it out in a context either that we're familiar with but haven't used it, or in a context someone else has described so that our experimentation has more meaning from the outset.

If you feel so inclined, please share.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

~ Oscar Wilde







 

Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may have yet to do so.  This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


David Goldfield
 

I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may have yet to do so.  This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Jackie
 

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to
think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen,
point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys,
then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (&
often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real
lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the
customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may
have yet to do so.  This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I
made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde



--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

Jackie,

           Thanks.  While I definitely get what object navigation is in the abstract, when I have attempted to play with it, where I attempted to play with it, I did not get results that were what I was expecting.

            That's the main reason I wanted some example contexts so that I could know whether I was making some sort of bone-headed mistake or not.  I am no exception to the general rule, "When things aren't going as expected, or documented, suspect user error first!"   People have often gotten irritated when I state this, but it's been proven, and by myself about myself, too, in far too many instances over the decades to be ignored.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to
think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen,
point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys,
then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (&
often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real
lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the
customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who may
have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when I
made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.
-
Joseph, would you mind offering a little bit more detail?  I can tab out of the search box in Settings then use the arrow keys to move around the grid of the various settings.  I can use right arrow to go from beginning to end and when I hit the end (Update & Security) right arrow stops working and left arrow works backward.  I can also use down/up arrow if there is an item below/above the one I'm on.  If I use object navigation to traverse the list (as it's treated as a list in object navigation) what I'm hearing is exactly what I'm hearing if I'm arrowing around.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as in what the "certain information" you've made reference to.  In my case, when moving about, I'm getting the title of the specific setting as well as its numeric position in the list.  This is a perfect example of where I think I may be missing something that can be achieved via object navigation.  For each item in the list of settings, after its title is a bit of descriptive text, e.g., for System, the first settings list item, it reads, "Display, sound, notifications, power," in small text afterward.  I virtually never actually read these, as it's the title of the settings I'm about to open that interests me, but it is there.  I'm wondering if that may be what you're talking about.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

Hi,

One way to illustrate this is Settings/System/About (or if you want to get there faster, press Windows+X, then Y). You can’t use keyboard commands to look at various system information displayed on that screen – you must use object navigation to read them.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 12:11 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

One context where I use object navigation is Windows 10 Settings (Windows+I) where you must use object navigation to read certain information.

-
Joseph, would you mind offering a little bit more detail?  I can tab out of the search box in Settings then use the arrow keys to move around the grid of the various settings.  I can use right arrow to go from beginning to end and when I hit the end (Update & Security) right arrow stops working and left arrow works backward.  I can also use down/up arrow if there is an item below/above the one I'm on.  If I use object navigation to traverse the list (as it's treated as a list in object navigation) what I'm hearing is exactly what I'm hearing if I'm arrowing around.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing, as in what the "certain information" you've made reference to.  In my case, when moving about, I'm getting the title of the specific setting as well as its numeric position in the list.  This is a perfect example of where I think I may be missing something that can be achieved via object navigation.  For each item in the list of settings, after its title is a bit of descriptive text, e.g., for System, the first settings list item, it reads, "Display, sound, notifications, power," in small text afterward.  I virtually never actually read these, as it's the title of the settings I'm about to open that interests me, but it is there.  I'm wondering if that may be what you're talking about.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


 

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 06:35 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
You can’t use keyboard commands to look at various system information displayed on that screen – you must use object navigation to read them.
-
Thank you for this specific example.   Again, this is very handy for me to have as I now have a specific location where playing with object navigation gets me a result I cannot get otherwise, and I've been told what that result would be.  I just went through the list of items near the top of the About pane and got "status green" for each after it was read, and had no idea of exactly how I was supposed to (or even if I could) get to that information via NVDA.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Gene
 

But the way you move is often different when using screen review and object navigation and there are times when you get little or no useful information one way and you do with the other. Also, you may get very different results such as in Notepad. If you use the review commands such as 7 and 9 when in object navigation mode, you can read an entire document that way because the opened document is one single object, I can open a hundreds of page document and move through the entire document. Using screen review, I am just reviewing the one screen.

It is important to know that these ways of moving are different.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Hi,
But the abstraction is the same: regardless of using a mouse or object navigation commands, a user is navigating controls that are not accessible with keyboard commands.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

You are describing screen review mode or the JAWS cursor. Object navigation is a very different system of movement.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 5:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Object Navigation - Where and How Do You Use It?

Brian, perhaps the easiest way to talk about object navigation is to think about what you do w/your mouse. You move around the screen, point at an object you want to interact with, & then click.

If a program's funtions are accessible w/tab, shift-tab, & arrow keys, then object navigation isn't necessary. But what if they're not? (& often they aren't). This is when object navigation can become a real lifesaver. So it's basically accessing programatic elements when the customary keyboard commands can't.

Does that help you at all?

On 8/6/20, David Goldfield <david.goldfield@...> wrote:
I often use object navigation when navigating through the screens in
Kaspersky Antivirus.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 8/6/2020 5:16 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Thank you to all who have offered their experiences and to all who
may have yet to do so. This is exactly what I was hoping to get when
I made the initial post, and I really, really appreciate the input.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

/A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings
unintentionally./

~ Oscar Wilde




--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com