Topics

Oddity With NVDA And Thunderbird with Inbox status Line


Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hello everyone,

After updating Nvda on the version 24 I have found this problem:

If I start Thunderbird and find messages, then Nvda says: Fillet down pointing small try angle.

I would like to know, how avoid it.


--
Jarek


seb naudet
 

Hello,

yes i've noticed that too.

i've added ▾ in the nvda dictionnary  to silent it.


    cheers

Le 20/02/2021 à 14:34, J cheersarek.Krcmar a écrit :
Hello everyone,

After updating Nvda on the version 24 I have found this problem:

If I start Thunderbird and find messages, then Nvda says: Fillet down pointing small try angle.

I would like to know, how avoid it.


 

My guess, based on both things now said, is that this is likely more on the Thunderbird side of things than NVDA, per se.

A screen reader only reads text (or alt-text, for graphics) that is exposed to it to read.  It almost sounds like it's now reading the character used for many things as far as expanded or collapsed or dropdown indication goes.   That downward pointing small triangle sounds like the conversation expanded indicator in the Tbird inbox for a given conversation you've landed on.  I'd expect that something very similar, but probably saying right pointing, is said if it's collapsed.

It could be an NVDA thing, but since this sort of symbol has been present "since dirt" in Thunderbird, and the announcement of expanded or collapsed had been, too, I suspect something's creeped in on the Tbird side.

Are either of you still getting expanded/collapsed announcements for conversations or in the folder tree?  Or is that weird triangle announcement being said everywhere, or perhaps only in, say, a mailbox list of messages but not the folder tree?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Gene
 

Your explanation may explain why I didn't hear any announcement. I don't have Thunderbird set to group messages.

It should be verified if this is heard in other treeviews.
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 12:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] +Strange thing in Nvda

My guess, based on both things now said, is that this is likely more on the Thunderbird side of things than NVDA, per se.

A screen reader only reads text (or alt-text, for graphics) that is exposed to it to read. It almost sounds like it's now reading the character used for many things as far as expanded or collapsed or dropdown indication goes. That downward pointing small triangle sounds like the conversation expanded indicator in the Tbird inbox for a given conversation you've landed on. I'd expect that something very similar, but probably saying right pointing, is said if it's collapsed.

It could be an NVDA thing, but since this sort of symbol has been present "since dirt" in Thunderbird, and the announcement of expanded or collapsed had been, too, I suspect something's creeped in on the Tbird side.

Are either of you still getting expanded/collapsed announcements for conversations or in the folder tree? Or is that weird triangle announcement being said everywhere, or perhaps only in, say, a mailbox list of messages but not the folder tree?
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


seb naudet
 

   Hi,

▾ was only annonced for main collapsed folders, just before messages numbers.

ex : gmail ▾54 or yahoo▾37...





Le 20/02/2021 à 19:46, Brian Vogel a écrit :

My guess, based on both things now said, is that this is likely more on the Thunderbird side of things than NVDA, per se.

A screen reader only reads text (or alt-text, for graphics) that is exposed to it to read.  It almost sounds like it's now reading the character used for many things as far as expanded or collapsed or dropdown indication goes.   That downward pointing small triangle sounds like the conversation expanded indicator in the Tbird inbox for a given conversation you've landed on.  I'd expect that something very similar, but probably saying right pointing, is said if it's collapsed.

It could be an NVDA thing, but since this sort of symbol has been present "since dirt" in Thunderbird, and the announcement of expanded or collapsed had been, too, I suspect something's creeped in on the Tbird side.

Are either of you still getting expanded/collapsed announcements for conversations or in the folder tree?  Or is that weird triangle announcement being said everywhere, or perhaps only in, say, a mailbox list of messages but not the folder tree?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Gene
 

I'm not sure how you get into the treeview of folders in Windows 10. For some reason, my Windows 7 machine only shows a list view. I've never known why. But it would be interesting to see what you would hear in that treeview when you were on closed folders.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: seb naudet
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 6:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] +Strange thing in Nvda



Hi,

▾ was only annonced for main collapsed folders, just before messages numbers.

ex : gmail ▾54 or yahoo▾37...













Le 20/02/2021 à 19:46, Brian Vogel a écrit :
My guess, based on both things now said, is that this is likely more on the Thunderbird side of things than NVDA, per se.

A screen reader only reads text (or alt-text, for graphics) that is exposed to it to read. It almost sounds like it's now reading the character used for many things as far as expanded or collapsed or dropdown indication goes. That downward pointing small triangle sounds like the conversation expanded indicator in the Tbird inbox for a given conversation you've landed on. I'd expect that something very similar, but probably saying right pointing, is said if it's collapsed.

It could be an NVDA thing, but since this sort of symbol has been present "since dirt" in Thunderbird, and the announcement of expanded or collapsed had been, too, I suspect something's creeped in on the Tbird side.

Are either of you still getting expanded/collapsed announcements for conversations or in the folder tree? Or is that weird triangle announcement being said everywhere, or perhaps only in, say, a mailbox list of messages but not the folder tree?
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Jarek.Krcmar
 

Hi,
I have Windows 10.
I have the problem already solved.
Jarek

-----Původní zpráva-----
From: Gene
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 1:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] +Strange thing in Nvda

I'm not sure how you get into the treeview of folders in Windows 10. For
some reason, my Windows 7 machine only shows a list view. I've never known
why. But it would be interesting to see what you would hear in that
treeview when you were on closed folders.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: seb naudet
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 6:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] +Strange thing in Nvda



Hi,

▾ was only annonced for main collapsed folders, just before messages
numbers.

ex : gmail ▾54 or yahoo▾37...













Le 20/02/2021 à 19:46, Brian Vogel a écrit :
My guess, based on both things now said, is that this is likely more on the
Thunderbird side of things than NVDA, per se.

A screen reader only reads text (or alt-text, for graphics) that is exposed
to it to read. It almost sounds like it's now reading the character used
for many things as far as expanded or collapsed or dropdown indication goes.
That downward pointing small triangle sounds like the conversation expanded
indicator in the Tbird inbox for a given conversation you've landed on. I'd
expect that something very similar, but probably saying right pointing, is
said if it's collapsed.

It could be an NVDA thing, but since this sort of symbol has been present
"since dirt" in Thunderbird, and the announcement of expanded or collapsed
had been, too, I suspect something's creeped in on the Tbird side.

Are either of you still getting expanded/collapsed announcements for
conversations or in the folder tree? Or is that weird triangle announcement
being said everywhere, or perhaps only in, say, a mailbox list of messages
but not the folder tree?
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Jarek.Krcmar
 

How did you do it?
Jarek


-----Původní zpráva-----
From: seb naudet
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 7:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] +Strange thing in Nvda

Hello,

yes i've noticed that too.

i've added ▾ in the nvda dictionnary to silent it.


cheers


Le 20/02/2021 à 14:34, J cheersarek.Krcmar a écrit :
Hello everyone,

After updating Nvda on the version 24 I have found this problem:

If I start Thunderbird and find messages, then Nvda says: Fillet down pointing small try angle.

I would like to know, how avoid it.


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

This issue began with the latest version of NVDA version 2020.4. When I voe to the Tree View of folders using the F6 key and arrow up and down I hear something like 'inbox fill down pointing small tirangle' followed by the number of unread messages in the folder. This is with sub foldrs located under the inbox and with the tree branch closed with the left arrow.

Does anyone else experience anything like this? This occurs with all installed synthesizers and voices and with variation of punctuation with all, some, most and characters. It stops only when I turn punctuation to none.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


 

+Strange thing in Nvda

Topic started yesterday, and should still be in your inbox.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 08:54 AM, Jarek.Krcmar wrote:
How did you do it?
-

Using the NVDA Dictionaries with Regular Expression Matching to Change Pronunciations (docx)

In this case, you need not use regular expression matching, since this is for a single character.  You can copy and paste that character, which has been in several messages in this topic and can be snagged from one of them, and use it in a Whole Word match rather than a regular expression match.

The tutorial goes through the steps, which are exactly the same as far as adding a dictionary entry, but I focused on regular expression matching.  It's a simple enough matter to use the Whole Word radio button as is appropriate here.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Dan Beaver
 

Yep, I have this behavior too. 



wonder if there is a way to stop this using the pronunciation dictionary.  It isn't a big show stopper for me but it would lessen the verbiage spoken.


Dan Beaver

On 2/21/2021 1:55 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

This issue began with the latest version of NVDA version 2020.4. When I voe to the Tree View of folders using the F6 key and arrow up and down I hear something like 'inbox fill down pointing small tirangle' followed by the number of unread messages in the folder. This is with sub foldrs located under the inbox and with the tree branch closed with the left arrow.

Does anyone else experience anything like this? This occurs with all installed synthesizers and voices and with variation of punctuation with all, some, most and characters. It stops only when I turn punctuation to none.

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


Dan Beaver
 

And I have my wondering answered too.  ;)


Dan Beaver

On 2/21/2021 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 08:54 AM, Jarek.Krcmar wrote:
How did you do it?
-

Using the NVDA Dictionaries with Regular Expression Matching to Change Pronunciations (docx)

In this case, you need not use regular expression matching, since this is for a single character.  You can copy and paste that character, which has been in several messages in this topic and can be snagged from one of them, and use it in a Whole Word match rather than a regular expression match.

The tutorial goes through the steps, which are exactly the same as far as adding a dictionary entry, but I focused on regular expression matching.  It's a simple enough matter to use the Whole Word radio button as is appropriate here.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)


 

Even though this topic was launched first, the more recent one asking about this issue has a title that is far more indicative regarding the actual issue:  Oddity With NVDA And Thunderbird with Inbox status Line

Thus, this topic, +Strange thing in Nvda, shall be merged into the more descriptive one as soon as I finish posting this message.  If others wish to discuss workarounds further, please post to the "Oddity" topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Brian,

The link you provided gives an error 404 file not found page.


On 2/21/2021 2:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
+Strange thing in Nvda

Topic started yesterday, and should still be in your inbox.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Dan,

I would have used the dictionary of some sort if I could actually isolate the odd figure/oration. But with Mozilla Thunderbird as well as Firefox, you can't isolate this item using the screen review or object review feature. When you switch to those modes and try moving to the status line where this odd character appears, all you get is 'blank' reported.


On 2/21/2021 3:57 PM, Dan Beaver wrote:

Yep, I have this behavior too. 



wonder if there is a way to stop this using the pronunciation dictionary.  It isn't a big show stopper for me but it would lessen the verbiage spoken.


Dan Beaver

On 2/21/2021 1:55 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Group,

This issue began with the latest version of NVDA version 2020.4. When I voe to the Tree View of folders using the F6 key and arrow up and down I hear something like 'inbox fill down pointing small tirangle' followed by the number of unread messages in the folder. This is with sub foldrs located under the inbox and with the tree branch closed with the left arrow.

Does anyone else experience anything like this? This occurs with all installed synthesizers and voices and with variation of punctuation with all, some, most and characters. It stops only when I turn punctuation to none.

-- 
Dan Beaver (KA4DAN)

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I tried following the steps indicated in this thread but it did not work. Actually what it should be saying is the word unread in place of that symbol., When I tried using the ▾  as the pattern and replacing it with the word unread, nothing changed.

On 2/21/2021 4:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Even though this topic was launched first, the more recent one asking about this issue has a title that is far more indicative regarding the actual issue:  Oddity With NVDA And Thunderbird with Inbox status Line

Thus, this topic, +Strange thing in Nvda, shall be merged into the more descriptive one as soon as I finish posting this message.  If others wish to discuss workarounds further, please post to the "Oddity" topic.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


 

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 04:51 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
When I tried using the ▾  as the pattern and replacing it with the word unread, nothing changed.

Are you positive that the item you're testing this on afterward has the downward pointing small triangle present?

When I try to search for that character, copied and pasted from your line, which I'm going to presume was copied straight from the source, I get nothing back in Character Map.

My gut still says to me that this is an issue with Thunderbird, not NVDA, but if it is then I'd imagine that NVDA 2020.3 would announce the same thing that 2020.4 does, and I don't think that's the case.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

By the way, I just put an entry in the default dictionary with the pattern being the single character: ▾
the replacement string being: tiny down arrow
the match type being: whole word.

After that's saved, I had NVDA read the following line that I'd created in Notepad: Now is the time ▾ for all ▾ good men to come to ▾ the aid of their party.

All three tiny down arrow characters were announced as "tiny down arrow."
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

And a follow-up:

When in Tbird, after having made the previously noted dictionary change, when I land on my inbox, where the▾immediately precedes the number of messages, it reads something that sounds like "fill" or "field" (more like the former) tiny down arrow.

I am absolutely certain that the "fill" was not being said in my initial test in Notepad, but when I revisit notpad it now is.  And it continues to be said even after Thunderbird is closed.

I closed NVDA, reopened it, and edited the dictionary entry, during which NVDA said that "fill" when in the pattern, and it had not before, but I edited my replacement string to "teeny tiny down arrow."  When I had NVDA read the line above with said character in it, after the edit, it says only "teeny tiny down arrow."

Curiouser and curiouser.


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov