Topics

OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Steve Nutt
 

Hi all,

 

With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say that NVDA, using CodeFactory’s Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me now than JAWS.

 

Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn’t speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.

 

In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet, I think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.

 

But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example, it won’t read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn’t use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.

 

Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.  You can’t just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.

 

I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than NVDA.

 

Just one guy’s opinion, don’t shoot me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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Brian's Mail list account
 

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane then...grin
I do agree that although the screen and other navigation modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes, given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say
that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me
now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in
Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn't speak
any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but
it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise that these problems are
borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet, I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example, it
won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in
Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn't use it
full time. It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by now,
NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen
reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than
NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk





Monte Single
 

Steve,

I am using nvda with win 7 and outlook 2013.

When I am in the message list of my inbox folder and want to  info on messages, I press insert plus end.  It tells me number of messages and number of unread messages.

hth

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: February-05-19 11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Hi all,

 

With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say that NVDA, using CodeFactory’s Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me now than JAWS.

 

Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn’t speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.

 

In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet, I think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.

 

But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example, it won’t read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn’t use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.

 

Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.  You can’t just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.

 

I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than NVDA.

 

Just one guy’s opinion, don’t shoot me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@...

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

 

Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what gives it
the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane then...grin
I do agree that although the screen and other navigation modes are powerful,
the issue is the way to use them for those not interested in understanding
objects children and all of that layered stuff. Flat review only seems to be
utilising half of the power, but since I am not sure what Jaws actually is
doing behind the scenes, given they probably harvest similar data, I'll
leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor loaded in
windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say
that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me
now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in
Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn't
speak
any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but
it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise that these problems are
borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example, it
won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in
Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn't use
it
full time. It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by
now,
NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen
reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than
NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk






Steve Nutt
 

Yes, but that’s not useful when you are traversing folders and want to know which ones have unread messages in them.  This should have been fixed a long time ago in NVDA, in my view.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 05 February 2019 20:34
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Steve,

I am using nvda with win 7 and outlook 2013.

When I am in the message list of my inbox folder and want to  info on messages, I press insert plus end.  It tells me number of messages and number of unread messages.

hth

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: February-05-19 11:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

 

Hi all,

 

With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say that NVDA, using CodeFactory’s Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me now than JAWS.

 

Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn’t speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.

 

In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet, I think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.

 

But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example, it won’t read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn’t use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.

 

Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.  You can’t just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.

 

I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than NVDA.

 

Just one guy’s opinion, don’t shoot me.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: steve@...

Web: http://www.comproom.co.uk

 

Brian's Mail list account
 

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what gives it
the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane then...grin
I do agree that although the screen and other navigation modes are powerful,
the issue is the way to use them for those not interested in understanding
objects children and all of that layered stuff. Flat review only seems to be
utilising half of the power, but since I am not sure what Jaws actually is
doing behind the scenes, given they probably harvest similar data, I'll
leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor loaded in
windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say
that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for me
now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in
Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn't
speak
any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few configurations, but
it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise that these problems are
borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example, it
won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y in
Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn't use
it
full time. It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by
now,
NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen
reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than
NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk












Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what gives
it
the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin
I do agree that although the screen and other navigation modes are
powerful,
the issue is the way to use them for those not interested in understanding
objects children and all of that layered stuff. Flat review only seems to
be
utilising half of the power, but since I am not sure what Jaws actually is
doing behind the scenes, given they probably harvest similar data, I'll
leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor loaded in
windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to say
that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more responsive for
me
now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control Panel in
Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it wouldn't
speak
any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few configurations,
but
it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise that these problems are
borne of problems with UIA, rather than problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example, it
won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you Control+Y
in
Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one reason I couldn't use
it
full time. It is visually there, and JAWS reads it, so in my view, by
now,
NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to screen
reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more polish than
NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Monte Single
 

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
NVDA also reads the message body on my machine. However it reads the subject
when I click on the message but then it reads the message body. I'm using
outlook 2016.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













 

Hi,
The ability to search for NVDA settings is something NVDA developers would
like to see, too.
As for Outlook message headers, I don't hear other header info spoken in
Office 365 (February 2019 release).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 4:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Steve Nutt
 

Yes, it reads the subject and the body when you open it.

If however, you turn off object descriptions, it won't read the subject when
you go into the message.

I have had to create an Outlook profile just to do that.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind
tech lover
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi.
NVDA also reads the message body on my machine. However it reads the subject
when I click on the message but then it reads the message body. I'm using
outlook 2016.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













 

Hi,
Steve is correct: NVDA Will indeed read the subject line because it is the
title of the temporary document that opens (technical: focus event).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 7:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Steve Nutt
 

Hi Joseph,

That surprises me. As I say, unless you have object descriptions turned
off, you will hear the subject again, when you enter the message.

No big deal, it just takes longer, and makes JAWS more efficient <Smile>.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: 06 February 2019 14:45
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,
The ability to search for NVDA settings is something NVDA developers would
like to see, too.
As for Outlook message headers, I don't hear other header info spoken in
Office 365 (February 2019 release).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 4:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













 

Hi,
Ah, found a possible cause: some parts of the message window is recognized
as a dialog, hence explaining why you may hear header info as that's what
accessibility API's will return as description text. The thing is, the
"descriptor" for this dialog (window class name, MSAA info, etc.) is the
kind used for generic dialogs, so there may not be an easy fix (isolating
the dialog that shows up when you open a message, and telling NVDA that this
is not really a dialog).
I may need to test it with stable releases to find out if a future NVDA
release fixed it.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 7:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Yes, it reads the subject and the body when you open it.

If however, you turn off object descriptions, it won't read the subject when
you go into the message.

I have had to create an Outlook profile just to do that.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of molly the blind
tech lover
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi.
NVDA also reads the message body on my machine. However it reads the subject
when I click on the message but then it reads the message body. I'm using
outlook 2016.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 8:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Gene
 

I don't know what accounts for the different reports, but if the subject line is read redundantly, you can stop this behavior in e-mail programs by opening the message and then executing the read to end command. 
 
Gene

From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No.  When I open  your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line.  Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings.  There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many  still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable  email and newsgroup  program and chose to use the awfully
limited  windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


> Hi,
>
> In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
> gives it the advantage.
>
> You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
> Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
> OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
> then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
> modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
> interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
> stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
> since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
> given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
> I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
> loaded in windows 7.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
> Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
>> say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
>> responsive for me now than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
>> Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
>> wouldn't speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few
>> configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise
>> that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
>> problems with NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
>> yet,
>
>> I
>> think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example,
>> it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
>> Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one
>> reason I couldn't use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS
>> reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
>> You can't just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an
>> equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
>> screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
>> polish than NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
















Chris Mullins
 

Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.
I have outlook 2016. How do I get outlook 2019?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 6:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk













Gene
 

You can cause JAWS to read the message body and not read all that extraneous information by getting in the habit of issuing read to end after opening a message.  You may have to experiment to see if you have to wait at all before issuing the command.  If you get in the habit of doing this, it becomes automatic and you can do this very quickly.
 
Gene

Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No.  When I open  your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line.  Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings.  There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many  still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable  email and newsgroup  program and chose to use the awfully
limited  windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


> Hi,
>
> In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
> gives it the advantage.
>
> You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
> Mail list account via Groups.Io
> Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
> OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
> then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
> modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
> interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
> stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
> since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
> given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
> I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
> loaded in windows 7.
> Brian
>
> bglists@...
> Sent via blueyonder.
> Please address personal E-mail to:-
> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
> in the display name field.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
> Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
>> say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
>> responsive for me now than JAWS.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
>> Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
>> wouldn't speak any of that window.  I realise it was limited to a few
>> configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time.  I also realise
>> that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
>> problems with NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
>> yet,
>
>> I
>> think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA.  For example,
>> it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
>> Control+Y in Outlook.  This is seriously annoying to me and one
>> reason I couldn't use it full time.  It is visually there, and JAWS
>> reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
>> You can't just do a screen find, and click on it.  We really need an
>> equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
>> screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
>> polish than NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Computer Room Services
>>
>> 77 Exeter Close
>>
>> Stevenage
>>
>> Hertfordshire
>>
>> SG1 4PW
>>
>> Tel: +44(0)1438-742286
>>
>> Mob: +44(0)7956-334938
>>
>> Fax: +44(0)1438-759589
>>
>> Email:  <mailto:steve@...> steve@...
>>
>> Web:  <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




















Monte Single
 

0Hi Molly,

You have Outlook 2016; you do not need Outlook 2019.
Lots of people are still using outlook 2010.
The only way to get Outlook 2019 is to buy it.
Spend your money on something you need. Or really want; you know, food,
clothes, shoes

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of molly
the blind tech lover
Sent: February-07-19 5:45 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi.
I have outlook 2016. How do I get outlook 2019?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 6:33 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi
I have Outlook 2007 and after pressing enter on a message in the folder
list, NVDA reads the text in the subject box not the whole line, then it
announces the message format, then the control type i.e "Dialog, Message
document, multi-line", then it reads the first line of the message body.

Cheers
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: 6 February 2019 15:09
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

I'm using Outlook 2016, and it does indeed read the subject line.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Monte Single
Sent: 06 February 2019 13:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

No. When I open your message, nvda reads the body of the message, it does
not read the subject line. Yes, I am using outlook 2013.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve
Nutt
Sent: February-06-19 6:50 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Hi,

That's really nothing to do with the differences between JAWS and NVDA,
performing with the same programs.

NVDA is a lot more responsive using Outlook, but it is not very good at
reading the unread messages in the folder tree.

It also insists on reading the subject line again when you open a message,
though I believe you can kill this by making a profile and turning off
object descriptions.

JAWS is more intuitive, just turn off reading message headers in outlook
verbosity.

This is why I say that JAWS is much more intuitive, you have to dive into
some techie detail to figure out some of NVDA's settings. There is also no
search for settings in NVDA, I'd like to see this kind of thing, JAWS does
it so well.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 06 February 2019 11:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

Jaws seems unable any more to read some of the flags on Outlook Express and
live mail.OK discontinued software but many still use them like myself with
the former. Its only Microsoft who seem to not want to develop whatwas a
very capable email and newsgroup program and chose to use the awfully
limited windows 10 mail instead or force everyone down the full outlook
route.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi,

In Windows 10, it still has a hook loaded, but I think that's what
gives it the advantage.

You can also run a portable version of JAWS without the hook though.

All the best

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
Mail list account via Groups.Io
Sent: 05 February 2019 18:33
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA

OK we will just use a 1 ton weight instead hanging from a crane
then...grin I do agree that although the screen and other navigation
modes are powerful, the issue is the way to use them for those not
interested in understanding objects children and all of that layered
stuff. Flat review only seems to be utilising half of the power, but
since I am not sure what Jaws actually is doing behind the scenes,
given they probably harvest similar data, I'll leave it at that.
I do notice though that even today, Jaws has a video interceptor
loaded in windows 7.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Nutt" <steve@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2019 5:03 PM
Subject: [nvda] OK died in the wool JAWS user using NVDA


Hi all,



With all this talk about 64-bit NVDA would be a lot better, I have to
say that NVDA, using CodeFactory's Eloquence add-on, is more
responsive for me now than JAWS.



Also, another piece of good news, my Windows settings in Control
Panel in Windows 10 is now accessible with NVDA, whereas for ages, it
wouldn't speak any of that window. I realise it was limited to a few
configurations, but it sure was annoying at the time. I also realise
that these problems are borne of problems with UIA, rather than
problems with NVDA.



In short, although I have, and will continue to, use JAWS for a while
yet,
I
think that NVDA is coming on in leaps and bounds.



But there are one or two very silly things about NVDA. For example,
it won't read how many messages are unread in a folder, when you
Control+Y in Outlook. This is seriously annoying to me and one
reason I couldn't use it full time. It is visually there, and JAWS
reads it, so in my view, by now, NVDA should read it too.



Also, flat review and object nav is not as intuitive as the JAWS cursor.
You can't just do a screen find, and click on it. We really need an
equivalent to Hotspot Clicker in NVDA as well.



I keep coming back to this, because I want NVDA to be the go-to
screen reader for everyone, but I think JAWS still has a little more
polish than NVDA.



Just one guy's opinion, don't shoot me.



All the best


Steve



--

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

Tel: +44(0)1438-742286

Mob: +44(0)7956-334938

Fax: +44(0)1438-759589

Email: <mailto:steve@...> steve@...

Web: <http://www.comproom.co.uk/> http://www.comproom.co.uk