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Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Felix G.
 

Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix

Brian's Mail list account
 

There used to be in the console, but I've not tried it lately so I'll bow to others with more up to date knowledge before I go furtling back though my archives. They can't touch you for it you know.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix G." <constantlyvariable@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 9:19 AM
Subject: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config


Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix

Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?

On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix

Tyler Wood
 

In windows 10 1803, If your issues are the same as mine with NVDA, I should also add here that I really wish I didn't have to perform 5000 steps to get a screen reader to do basic tasks - like reading the windows explorer window after files are copied, moved, or deleted.


I'm exagerating, but this has been going on for 3 plus years and nothing seems to correlate or come to a solution. On lower end hardware it is almost intolerable - alt tabbing is somehow related to this, I think.


However, using 1809, this issue, from what I can see anyway, appears to be almost gone - windows explorer performs similar to other screen readers now and I'm not sure what actually solved this. I only have one computer running the 1809 update, though, so only time will tell. I'm also not running the 2018.4 betas.


So - in conclusion, if you're having these issues, perhaps waiting until the 1809 update hits your device rather than disabling certain drivers would be your best bet? Unless you're having other issues that I'm not aware of.


Either way these are interesting findings.

On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix

Gene
 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
 
Gene

From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>


 

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>

Felix G.
 

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually
refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the
system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try
to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain
operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the
watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more
responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will
force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to
do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch
to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes
to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception
of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want
to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button
every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go,
seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious
pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up
cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's
supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish
sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive
at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing
the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then
calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop
watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets
killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the
watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash
rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:


From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix



 

Hi,
There is no such config option to turn off watchdog at startup, although I think a command line switch might help (if implemented) or modify the source code. The best person to talk to regarding NVDA watchdog is James Teh (Mozilla) who is the main architect of that module.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Felix G.
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi!
Let me clear up some of the confusion: Watchdog, in computing, usually refers to a component which monitors whether a system is alive. If the system turns out to be unresponsive, the watchdog will step in and try to get it out of the tight spot. NVDA has one, too. For certain operations, if they do not complete within a certain time, the watchdog jumps in and cancels the operation to make NVDA more responsive. In short, whenever NVDA's core freezes, the watchdog will force it out of the spot where it froze and back into safe territory.
Apologies to programmers for the over-simplification. The truth has to do with threads and exceptions and stuff.
It's a bit like on an airplane. Let's say the pilot decides to switch to autopilot. Theoretically, the plane can now do everything it takes to get to its destination automatically, with the possible exception of landing, which requires human clearance. Still, you wouldn't want to fly with a dead pilot, so the pilot is required to press a button every now and then to indicate they're still alive and breathing.
That's how a watchdog works.
Now my machine, being somewhat on the slow side as far as machines go, seems to encounter a lot of those so-called freezes (unconscious pilots), so the watchdog thinks it has a lot of work to do and ends up cancelling many little interactions between NVDA and other processes.
As a result, data sometimes does not get relayed to NVDA the way it's supposed to, and therefore NVDA sometimes fails to track focus.
Disabling the watchdog, on my system, makes NVDA a bit sluggish sometimes as it wades through some slow spots, but it tends to arrive at the correct answers more often, which outweighs that disadvantage.
When NVDA is running, I can tell the watchdog to go to sleep by typing the following into the Python console:
import watchdog
watchdog.terminate()
So I'm pulling the watchdog's module into the console's scope and then calling its terminate function, which simply tells it to stop watching. Technically, the thread that does the watching just gets killed. Poor doggy. Fortunately just a software one.
Anyway, now I'm looking for a way to have NVDA never even start the watchdog, as I prefer living with the occasional sluggishness or crash rather than have the system behave indeterministically.
All the best,
Felix
Am Mi., 5. Dez. 2018 um 18:20 Uhr schrieb Gene <gsasner@...>:

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program. A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:
https://www.watchdogdevelopment.com/en/home/anti-malware

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler Wood
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA
issues are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is
not on duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
All the best,
Felix



Gene
 

The NVDA module would be what is evidently being referred to then. 
 
But to clarify, I didn't say the other Watchdog is malware.  it's an antimalware program so people may want to learn about it even if it doesn't apply to this thread.
 
My comments on Watchdog are as a member, not a moderator and there is no reason to respond differently to them than to anyone else's.  No concern about my role as a moderator in disagreeing need apply nor be felt.
 
Gene

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

Hi all,

I think this is one of those times where I may need to override a forum leader in my capacity as a code contributor (sorry):

The watchdog is indeed not a malware. NVDA’s watchdog is used to keep an eye on how NVDA itself is doing and react to NVDA crashing such as writing a minidump and restarting NVDA if necessary. If watchdog is gone, NVDA won’t be able to respond to its own crashes and such, thus disabling it is not generally recommended.

Thus please disregard the research done on it so far, as they have nothing to do with actual purpose of NVDA’s watchdog module.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:21 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

From the name, this is most likely an antimalware program.  A Goodle search for Watchdog antimalware, shows this as the first result with an explanation of the program:

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Tyler Wood

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Permanently disabling watchdog via config

 

Hi,

Please explain what you are talking about by 'watchdog'?

A quick google search of windows 10 watchdog nets how to fix errors
related to it, not how to disable it or even what it does.


Further googling it appears that this is an ssd driver?


On 2018-12-05 3:19 a.m., Felix G. wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm currently testing some driver scenarios with watchdog disabled,
> and by coincidence discovered that some of my longstanding NVDA issues
> are not present, or behave differently, when the watchdog is not on
> duty. Is there a quick'n'easy way to have the watchdog never start?
> All the best,
> Felix
>
>
>