Topics

planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

Kara Goldfinch
 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara


--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Cordelia Scharpf
 

Hi, Kara:

That’d be very useful. I know some commands, but not all. Having them in a tutorial (= in one place) for quick reference would be great. Thanks for your initiative and best of luck with the community effort.

 

Cordelia

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kara Goldfinch
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 5:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara

 

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Kerryn Gunness
 


very good
 i would make use of it
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:57 PM
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara


--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

I would appreciate such a tutorial for new NVDA users. Lemme know if I can help you in any way.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kara Goldfinch
Sent: Samstag, 29. Februar 2020 17:57
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara

 

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Kara


have a sus of my website it should be covered. The link to the website ishttp://www.accessibilitycentral.net

I think it is on the nvda tutorials or nvda audio tutorial page.

There are nvda tutorials up there both written and audio. If you click on any of the nvda pages it will take you into the nvda side of it and from there you can get to my other nvda tutorials.


Gene nz


On 1/03/2020 5:57 am, Kara Goldfinch wrote:

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara


--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

molly the blind tech lover
 

Hi.

I think it’s a great idea. I reckon loads of people will find it useful, myself included 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kara Goldfinch
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara

 

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Gene
 

Sinnce I don't know very specifically how you intend to approach the project, I can't comment much on just what you intend to do. 
 
I will say that I think the emphasis, at least for the beginning of any such tutorial should be page navigation.  People need to really have it rubbed in that they are dealing with a document that has certain conventions.  For example, you generally see navigation links on the top of the page, the text after the navigation links, and other navigation links, some of them repetitive.
 
The links list, I veel very strongly, should not be taught until the person has received enough instruction to thoroughly teadch the concept of a document with certain conventions.  And that means teaching the search command, not just as something to be used in the great variety of moving through web pages, but rather as an essential thing in itself.  The search command is one of the most under used and most powerful ways to find things.
 
As to the conventions of web pages. the navigation links are to allow you to efficiently move from one part of the web site to another.  If this concept, a document with conventions, isn't really emphasized, the person learning may never get a proper understanding of how to think about web pages.
I could go on about teaching but I'm not sure how much detail would be appropriate for this list and not the chat list.  A good deal of what you will be teaching is universal in terms of good Windows screen-readers and web navigation.  Commands are very standardized now among widely used Windows screen-readers so the first question is whether this should be for NVDA specifically of for blind users in general.  Since so many blind computer users are poor or mediocre Internet users, if you broaden the description, you may help a lot more people.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 10:57 AM
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara


--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Tony Malykh
 

If you do decide to write such a document, you might want to consider including information about my add-ons TextNav and BrowserNav there - as they are specifically intended for the same purpose: simplify or enhance navigation around web pages.

--Tony


On 2/29/2020 8:57 AM, Kara Goldfinch wrote:

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara


--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Christo Vorster
 

Hi Kara

 

I think it is a fabulous idea.

 

I’ll definitely use such a manual.

 

Regards

 

Christo Vorster (South Africa)

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Saturday, 29 February 2020 23:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi.

I think it’s a great idea. I reckon loads of people will find it useful, myself included 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kara Goldfinch
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara

 

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts

Gene
 

Further to what I said yesterday, you can  become so concerned with learning, using, and explaining every little thing about the many ways of web page navigation that you can micromemorize and micromanage web page navigation, which may obscure the big picture and makes web page navigation seem much more difficult than it is.
 
For example, you don't have to memorize web page after web page headings, such as that on x web site, heading level threes move you through these kinds of links, heading number twos moves you through these kinds of links, etc.  While you can explain what these numbers mean and how you might use them for the fastest possible navigation on a familiar page, if you think fractions of seconds count, I contend that simply moving by headings by typing h to move you through all headings will get you where you want to be quickly and without the drudgery of micromemorization.  What does it matter if I type h 2 times to get where I want, or the number 3 1 time. 
 
Your initial question about all the ways to navigate indicates that the variety of ways to navigate may evidently be obscuring your big picture understanding.
 
It is important to know many ways of navigating.  People should know commands for move by button, heading, skip links. move by check box, and move by separator, to give many examples which cover most of the important quick movement commands.
 
but teaching the quick commands should be done organically, when teaching how to use the structures.  When teaching how to work with radio buttons, or check boxes, the quick movement commands can be given. 
 
The point isn't that there are all these commands to move.  The point is how do you work with these structures, and how might you want to move quickly from one such structure to another. 
 
I will be happy to communicate with you more off list or on the chat list.  If you want to do so, let me know. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2020 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

Hi Kara

 

I think it is a fabulous idea.

 

I’ll definitely use such a manual.

 

Regards

 

Christo Vorster (South Africa)

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of molly the blind tech lover
Sent: Saturday, 29 February 2020 23:03
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi.

I think it’s a great idea. I reckon loads of people will find it useful, myself included 😀

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kara Goldfinch
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] planning on writing a guide on browsing the web efficiently with NVDA

 

Hi everyone.

As the subject says, I am planning to write a guide on how to browse the web more efficiently with NVDA.

As you all know, NVDA has a ton of single navigation commands to navigate to different webpage elements, E.G. Landmarks, headings, block quotes, links, the newly introduced groupings and articles etc. However, there doesn't seem to be much info in laypersons terms about what these elements are, much less how you can use them to  get around the web quicker. There's loads of dev info on w3c, but nothing much for your average screen reader user navigating the web.

I would post it on the community wiki as frankly I'm only one woman and don't know everything.  So it'd be a community effort much like the JAWS to NVDA guide, which I did most of the initial work on.

What do you all think of such a project? Would you find it useful?

Also, if a similar thing already exists, I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

All the best,

Kara

 

--

Kara Goldfinch

Certified Expert               
View the list of all NVDA Experts