please help with go to Meeting


Betsy Grenevitch
 

I have no idea how to use Go to Meeting. Could someone please give me the mute and unmute commands?  Thank you so much.


--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Betsy Grenevitch
 

I found my notes for Go to Meeting so do not need the help. I do not know why I could not find them sooner. thanks.


--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


 

Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Betsy Grenevitch
 

I am confused. Is that a different list? If so, what is to be discussed on this list and what is the address where you sign up for that list to which you refer? thanks.


On 4/21/2022 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Betsy,

 

The address for the chat group is chat@nvda.groups.io. That's where you can discuss programs like go to meeting and other things that aren't really NVDA-related.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

I am confused. Is that a different list? If so, what is to be discussed on this list and what is the address where you sign up for that list to which you refer? thanks.

 

On 4/21/2022 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Betsy Grenevitch
 

I am not trying to cause trouble but am trying to figure out why it is not NVDA related when it is NVDA I am using so I need commands that work with NVDA? Again, I not trying to cause problems but just do not get how that is not NVDA related.


Thanks for the address.

On 4/21/2022 3:05 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Betsy,

 

The address for the chat group is chat@nvda.groups.io. That's where you can discuss programs like go to meeting and other things that aren't really NVDA-related.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

I am confused. Is that a different list? If so, what is to be discussed on this list and what is the address where you sign up for that list to which you refer? thanks.

 

On 4/21/2022 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Betsy Grenevitch
 

How do I sign up to be on the list or do you just write to it when you have a question?



On 4/21/2022 3:05 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Betsy,

 

The address for the chat group is chat@nvda.groups.io. That's where you can discuss programs like go to meeting and other things that aren't really NVDA-related.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

I am confused. Is that a different list? If so, what is to be discussed on this list and what is the address where you sign up for that list to which you refer? thanks.

 

On 4/21/2022 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

The subscription address is chat+subscribe@nvda.groups.io.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 12:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

How do I sign up to be on the list or do you just write to it when you have a question?

 

 

On 4/21/2022 3:05 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Betsy,

 

The address for the chat group is chat@nvda.groups.io. That's where you can discuss programs like go to meeting and other things that aren't really NVDA-related.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

I am confused. Is that a different list? If so, what is to be discussed on this list and what is the address where you sign up for that list to which you refer? thanks.

 

On 4/21/2022 2:13 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Betsy,

Glad to hear you've found the notes you've needed.   Just a gentle reminder that questions about how to use applications, be they web applications or installed ones, are Chat Subgroup topics.

And I'm issuing this reminder more for the entire readership than for you, as we've now got a pretty good thing going where those who do have application specific questions have been posting them to the Chat Subgroup where extensive discussion can be had if needed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 03:08 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
I am not trying to cause trouble but am trying to figure out why it is not NVDA related when it is NVDA I am using so I need commands that work with NVDA?
-
Because they are not "commands that work with NVDA."  They are commands for that program that work for that program whether NVDA is involved or not.

During my time as moderator here one of the things I have really been trying to emphasize is that all members need to think, carefully, about "what's in control" when asking about something.  Sometimes this is not necessarily clear, but in this case, it's crystal clear even by the way you originally asked the question.

The fact that CTRL + C (Copy), CTRL + V (Paste), CTRL + X (Cut), CTRL + Z (Undo), and many other commands work when you happen to be using NVDA has absolutely nothing to do with NVDA.  They work whether NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, or no screen reader is involved.  They are (in the case of this short list) Windows commands that are applicable in a wide variety of programs that run under Windows.

I've included a part in the group rules that reads:  It is presumed that the majority of members will be using NVDA, and possibly other screen readers, as part of their daily routine.  This being the case, before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you’re using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA.

In your specific case, you initially asked, in regard to Go To Meetng, "Could someone please give me the mute and unmute commands?"  Those are commands for that program.  NVDA has nothing to do with muting or unmuting Go To Meeting, you just so happen to be using NVDA to access it.

Believe it or not, having some idea of what are Windows commands, versus individual program/app commands, versus the commands of your chosen screen reader often makes it much easier to figure out where you need to direct your attention and research to get something done.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you, Brian. I had no idea that the commands were universal for Go to Meeting no matter what screen reader you are using. I know just enough to survive using different applications. On top of that I am dealing with dementia that is getting worse so have to refer to notes now even for things I have done for years.

Betsy




Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2022 06:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 03:08 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I am not trying to cause trouble but am trying to figure out why it is not
NVDA related when it is NVDA I am using so I need commands that work with
NVDA?
-
Because they are not "commands that work with NVDA."  They are commands for that program that work for that program whether NVDA is involved or not.
During my time as moderator here one of the things I have really been trying to emphasize is that all members need to think, carefully, about "what's in control" when asking about something.  Sometimes this is not necessarily clear, but in this case, it's crystal clear even by the way you originally asked the question.
The fact that CTRL + C (Copy), CTRL + V (Paste), CTRL + X (Cut), CTRL + Z (Undo), and many other commands work when you happen to be using NVDA has absolutely nothing to do with NVDA.  They work whether NVDA, JAWS, Narrator, or no screen reader is involved.  They are (in the case of this short list) Windows commands that are applicable in a wide variety of programs that run under Windows.
I've included a part in the group rules that reads: It is presumed that the majority of members will be using NVDA, and possibly other screen readers, as part of their daily routine.  This being the case, before you post a message you have to consider whether the question you are about to ask is actually about NVDA itself, or about the program you're using it to access.  Questions of the form, How do I use . . . with NVDA?, are very seldom about NVDA, but are almost always about the program being accessed with NVDA.
In your specific case, you initially asked, in regard to Go To Meetng, " Could someone please give me the mute and unmute commands? "  Those are commands for that program.  NVDA has nothing to do with muting or unmuting Go To Meeting, you just so happen to be using NVDA to access it.
Believe it or not, having some idea of what are Windows commands, versus individual program/app commands, versus the commands of your chosen screen reader often makes it much easier to figure out where you need to direct your attention and research to get something done.
--
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
*You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
* ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


 

Betsy,

You're quite welcome.  As I noted, it often makes things clearer, much clearer, when you understand "who controls what."

Believe me, each and every one of us has been a neophyte at any given thing we've ever tried or used.  Your post just provided me an opportunity to illustrate that most things where the question is, "How do I do this thing in that program [using keyboard commands]?," will typically have the same answer whether any screen reader is involved or not.

And having lived through my Mom's years with Alzheimer's dementia, which lasted for over a decade, I know only too well how challenging dementia (regardless of type) is.  You seem to be doing a remarkable job in using compensatory strategies to manage your day to day life.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Gene
 

It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

In general, a command is a screen-reader command when it has to do with doing something you have to read the screen for and that doesn't affect a program or Windows, meaning it takes no action in a program or Windows.  Commands like read current line, read title bar, and all the quick navigation commands such as move by heading, are screen-reader commands.  Say time is another screen-reader command.

While a lot of other commands result in speech, that is because the screen-reader is announcing the effects of commands that do something in a program or Windows.  Examples are move right by character, right arrow, move left by character, left arrow, and move right and left by word, control right arrow and control left arrow.  Those commands all move the application cursor.  Move up one line, up arrow, and move down one line, down arrow, are program commands.  You are moving the program cursor down or up a line.

A screen review command that reviews the screen but doesn't do anything in a program is a screen-reader command.  tabbing in a dialog.  is a program or Windows command.  The screen-reader speaks the field in the dialog you have moved to but again, you are taking an action that affects a program or Windows and the screen-reader is telling you the result of the action, which field you have moved to in the program or windows.  Even if you weren't using a screen-reader, the arrow keys and tabbing would do exactly the same thing.  You wouldn't hear speech, but the results would be identical.  A sighted person could move the program cursor in a word processor, for example, or tab through a dialog, or open menus, using exactly the same commands as a blind person would use.  They are all program or Windows commands.

If more people knew how to generally distinguish between screen-reader commands and others, they would understand that most commands they use most of the time are program or Windows commands.  They would then understand that they can have a main screen-reader and one or more they use when the main one doesn't do things well.  And they wouldn't have to learn much to use the second screen-reader for the limited purposes they would use it for.

They might also be more willing to stop using obsolete programs like Internet Explorer.  The commands used in browse mode would be the same, regardless of browser, if the browser supports browse mode. 

There are things to learn but you already know most of what you would use.

Gene


 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 08:44 PM, Gene wrote:
It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 
-
Indeed.  And I thank you for that.

There is, however, a somewhat "quick and dirty" method to filter, and that's a combination of:
1. Scope - where does the command actually work (in only one program, across multiple programs, or across multiple programs and in Windows) and on what is it acting?
2. Modifier Key or Keys used.

NVDA commands, for most cases, use the NVDA key as their modifier, whether that's the Insert key in desktop keyboard layout or CAPS LOCK in laptop layout.  If you have any command that uses the NVDA modifier key, you can be as close to completely assured as is possible that you're looking at an NVDA command.  (The same applies for JAWS, too, and from what I remember of Narrator it also applies there).

CTRL, ALT and the two in combination are a bit less clear, because they get used both within programs and by Windows.  In the vast majority of cases if you use CTRL + ALT + something else, it's being handled by Windows.  That includes firing up NVDA via CTRL + ALT + N.  That's a shortcut that is interpreted by Windows that gets created if you so choose when you install NVDA, but it is NOT, in any way, acted upon directly by NVDA.  Those of you who've created other keyboard shortcuts in the Properties dialog for a desktop shortcut that doesn't have one by default have done precisely the same thing the NVDA installer does when it installs NVDA.  In the case of when NVDA is running, there are cases where CTRL + ALT + Arrow Keys are NVDA commands, but those cases are constrained by very specific situations, like being inside a table.  If you're not in the specific situation where those commands are interpreted by NVDA, they do nothing.  A quick cruise through the NVDA commands quick reference shows how rare NVDA keyboard commands without the NVDA key modifier are, with the exception of those done on the number pad when it is not in number pad mode.  Overall, it's pretty darned safe to assume if NVDA Key is not involved, it's most likely not an NVDA command.

For things like cut, copy, paste, and similar you can use the context in which you use the command, and exactly what it's acting on, to get a very good idea of which program layer is interpreting it.  If you are in a word processor, what is it that you cut, copy, and paste?  Text, tables, other objects like images, text boxes, etc., and all of those things are created within that word processor.  Things like mute/unmute, well, do those make sense in Word, Excel, File Explorer, etc.?  No, they do not, and they are acting on sound in programs that have sound as something they manipulate, so in that case you have very clear evidence, if those commands are CTRL or ALT plus some letter or function key that those are controlled by that program.  For those who use email clients, think about all of the CTRL, ALT, or function key commands that do what they do only when that client is open and operating.  That's a clear indication that they are that email client's commands, not Windows, not your screen reader.

But a few seconds thinking about exactly where and when a command works, what it works on, and whether it includes any really distinct modifier key, like the NVDA key, gives you some really good, and not particularly complicated, ways to make a very educated guess as to "who controls what" in reference to that specific command in the context where it's being used.

It's really not all that complicated.  And I have to say that Betsy's original query, as a whole shows that.  The topic title showed a clear, if not conscious, understanding of what was being asked about, "Go To Meeting."  And the specific question asking about mute/unmute instantly tells you:  not NVDA, as NVDA doesn't mute/unmute sound from a program in the way being asked about and there's no NVDA modifier involved.  And it's not likely that any mute/unmute command is going to be handled by Windows if it only effects a single program.  You can mute/unmute all sound, and that's what's under the control of Windows, but if you're selectively muting the output from Zoom, Go To Meeting, a media player, or similar the command you're using to do that goes with that program.  But regardless, because the classic NVDA modifier key is nowhere to be seen, it's really, really unlikely to be an NVDA command.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you so much. I will save these notes.



On 4/21/2022 8:44 PM, Gene wrote:
It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

In general, a command is a screen-reader command when it has to do with doing something you have to read the screen for and that doesn't affect a program or Windows, meaning it takes no action in a program or Windows.  Commands like read current line, read title bar, and all the quick navigation commands such as move by heading, are screen-reader commands.  Say time is another screen-reader command.

While a lot of other commands result in speech, that is because the screen-reader is announcing the effects of commands that do something in a program or Windows.  Examples are move right by character, right arrow, move left by character, left arrow, and move right and left by word, control right arrow and control left arrow.  Those commands all move the application cursor.  Move up one line, up arrow, and move down one line, down arrow, are program commands.  You are moving the program cursor down or up a line.

A screen review command that reviews the screen but doesn't do anything in a program is a screen-reader command.  tabbing in a dialog.  is a program or Windows command.  The screen-reader speaks the field in the dialog you have moved to but again, you are taking an action that affects a program or Windows and the screen-reader is telling you the result of the action, which field you have moved to in the program or windows.  Even if you weren't using a screen-reader, the arrow keys and tabbing would do exactly the same thing.  You wouldn't hear speech, but the results would be identical.  A sighted person could move the program cursor in a word processor, for example, or tab through a dialog, or open menus, using exactly the same commands as a blind person would use.  They are all program or Windows commands.

If more people knew how to generally distinguish between screen-reader commands and others, they would understand that most commands they use most of the time are program or Windows commands.  They would then understand that they can have a main screen-reader and one or more they use when the main one doesn't do things well.  And they wouldn't have to learn much to use the second screen-reader for the limited purposes they would use it for.

They might also be more willing to stop using obsolete programs like Internet Explorer.  The commands used in browse mode would be the same, regardless of browser, if the browser supports browse mode. 

There are things to learn but you already know most of what you would use.

Gene

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


David Goldfield
 

Hi. As this is a support list for NVDA users I don’t want to steer things off-topic to JAWS but I will say that JAWS does make the occasional exception in assigning JAWS-specific commands to keystrokes which don’t involve the JAWS modifier key, such as pressing alt-shift-L to generate a list of spelling errors in a Word document. However, Brian’s tip for determining whether a keystroke is screen reader specific definitely works 99.9% of the time. Of course, the other exceptions are the single letter navigation commands found on Web pages/HTML documents  and in Word documents, such as pressing H for next heading, which are screen reader specific.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 08:44 PM, Gene wrote:

It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

-
Indeed.  And I thank you for that.

There is, however, a somewhat "quick and dirty" method to filter, and that's a combination of:
1. Scope - where does the command actually work (in only one program, across multiple programs, or across multiple programs and in Windows) and on what is it acting?
2. Modifier Key or Keys used.

NVDA commands, for most cases, use the NVDA key as their modifier, whether that's the Insert key in desktop keyboard layout or CAPS LOCK in laptop layout.  If you have any command that uses the NVDA modifier key, you can be as close to completely assured as is possible that you're looking at an NVDA command.  (The same applies for JAWS, too, and from what I remember of Narrator it also applies there).

CTRL, ALT and the two in combination are a bit less clear, because they get used both within programs and by Windows.  In the vast majority of cases if you use CTRL + ALT + something else, it's being handled by Windows.  That includes firing up NVDA via CTRL + ALT + N.  That's a shortcut that is interpreted by Windows that gets created if you so choose when you install NVDA, but it is NOT, in any way, acted upon directly by NVDA.  Those of you who've created other keyboard shortcuts in the Properties dialog for a desktop shortcut that doesn't have one by default have done precisely the same thing the NVDA installer does when it installs NVDA.  In the case of when NVDA is running, there are cases where CTRL + ALT + Arrow Keys are NVDA commands, but those cases are constrained by very specific situations, like being inside a table.  If you're not in the specific situation where those commands are interpreted by NVDA, they do nothing.  A quick cruise through the NVDA commands quick reference shows how rare NVDA keyboard commands without the NVDA key modifier are, with the exception of those done on the number pad when it is not in number pad mode.  Overall, it's pretty darned safe to assume if NVDA Key is not involved, it's most likely not an NVDA command.

For things like cut, copy, paste, and similar you can use the context in which you use the command, and exactly what it's acting on, to get a very good idea of which program layer is interpreting it.  If you are in a word processor, what is it that you cut, copy, and paste?  Text, tables, other objects like images, text boxes, etc., and all of those things are created within that word processor.  Things like mute/unmute, well, do those make sense in Word, Excel, File Explorer, etc.?  No, they do not, and they are acting on sound in programs that have sound as something they manipulate, so in that case you have very clear evidence, if those commands are CTRL or ALT plus some letter or function key that those are controlled by that program.  For those who use email clients, think about all of the CTRL, ALT, or function key commands that do what they do only when that client is open and operating.  That's a clear indication that they are that email client's commands, not Windows, not your screen reader.

But a few seconds thinking about exactly where and when a command works, what it works on, and whether it includes any really distinct modifier key, like the NVDA key, gives you some really good, and not particularly complicated, ways to make a very educated guess as to "who controls what" in reference to that specific command in the context where it's being used.

It's really not all that complicated.  And I have to say that Betsy's original query, as a whole shows that.  The topic title showed a clear, if not conscious, understanding of what was being asked about, "Go To Meeting."  And the specific question asking about mute/unmute instantly tells you:  not NVDA, as NVDA doesn't mute/unmute sound from a program in the way being asked about and there's no NVDA modifier involved.  And it's not likely that any mute/unmute command is going to be handled by Windows if it only effects a single program.  You can mute/unmute all sound, and that's what's under the control of Windows, but if you're selectively muting the output from Zoom, Go To Meeting, a media player, or similar the command you're using to do that goes with that program.  But regardless, because the classic NVDA modifier key is nowhere to be seen, it's really, really unlikely to be an NVDA command.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


David Goldfield
 

Thanks, Brian. Except for table navigation commands and the single letter shortcut keys for HTML documents NVDA is a bit more consistent in that almost all other NVDA commands involve using the NVDA modifier key. I personally don’t mind that Vispero occasionally plays a bit fast and loose with this rule but I could see how a user could get confused thinking that the command to bring up a list of spelling errors is a Word command and then wondering why it’s not working at all if they switch to using NVDA.

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you for explaining further. This is not something I recall ever hearing before but with memory loss who knows. I will write this down in my NVDA notes for the future.

On 4/21/2022 11:24 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

Hi. As this is a support list for NVDA users I don’t want to steer things off-topic to JAWS but I will say that JAWS does make the occasional exception in assigning JAWS-specific commands to keystrokes which don’t involve the JAWS modifier key, such as pressing alt-shift-L to generate a list of spelling errors in a Word document. However, Brian’s tip for determining whether a keystroke is screen reader specific definitely works 99.9% of the time. Of course, the other exceptions are the single letter navigation commands found on Web pages/HTML documents  and in Word documents, such as pressing H for next heading, which are screen reader specific.

 

 

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 08:44 PM, Gene wrote:

It may be helpful to explain in some detail how to distinguish between a screen-reader command and program or Windows commands. 

-
Indeed.  And I thank you for that.

There is, however, a somewhat "quick and dirty" method to filter, and that's a combination of:
1. Scope - where does the command actually work (in only one program, across multiple programs, or across multiple programs and in Windows) and on what is it acting?
2. Modifier Key or Keys used.

NVDA commands, for most cases, use the NVDA key as their modifier, whether that's the Insert key in desktop keyboard layout or CAPS LOCK in laptop layout.  If you have any command that uses the NVDA modifier key, you can be as close to completely assured as is possible that you're looking at an NVDA command.  (The same applies for JAWS, too, and from what I remember of Narrator it also applies there).

CTRL, ALT and the two in combination are a bit less clear, because they get used both within programs and by Windows.  In the vast majority of cases if you use CTRL + ALT + something else, it's being handled by Windows.  That includes firing up NVDA via CTRL + ALT + N.  That's a shortcut that is interpreted by Windows that gets created if you so choose when you install NVDA, but it is NOT, in any way, acted upon directly by NVDA.  Those of you who've created other keyboard shortcuts in the Properties dialog for a desktop shortcut that doesn't have one by default have done precisely the same thing the NVDA installer does when it installs NVDA.  In the case of when NVDA is running, there are cases where CTRL + ALT + Arrow Keys are NVDA commands, but those cases are constrained by very specific situations, like being inside a table.  If you're not in the specific situation where those commands are interpreted by NVDA, they do nothing.  A quick cruise through the NVDA commands quick reference shows how rare NVDA keyboard commands without the NVDA key modifier are, with the exception of those done on the number pad when it is not in number pad mode.  Overall, it's pretty darned safe to assume if NVDA Key is not involved, it's most likely not an NVDA command.

For things like cut, copy, paste, and similar you can use the context in which you use the command, and exactly what it's acting on, to get a very good idea of which program layer is interpreting it.  If you are in a word processor, what is it that you cut, copy, and paste?  Text, tables, other objects like images, text boxes, etc., and all of those things are created within that word processor.  Things like mute/unmute, well, do those make sense in Word, Excel, File Explorer, etc.?  No, they do not, and they are acting on sound in programs that have sound as something they manipulate, so in that case you have very clear evidence, if those commands are CTRL or ALT plus some letter or function key that those are controlled by that program.  For those who use email clients, think about all of the CTRL, ALT, or function key commands that do what they do only when that client is open and operating.  That's a clear indication that they are that email client's commands, not Windows, not your screen reader.

But a few seconds thinking about exactly where and when a command works, what it works on, and whether it includes any really distinct modifier key, like the NVDA key, gives you some really good, and not particularly complicated, ways to make a very educated guess as to "who controls what" in reference to that specific command in the context where it's being used.

It's really not all that complicated.  And I have to say that Betsy's original query, as a whole shows that.  The topic title showed a clear, if not conscious, understanding of what was being asked about, "Go To Meeting."  And the specific question asking about mute/unmute instantly tells you:  not NVDA, as NVDA doesn't mute/unmute sound from a program in the way being asked about and there's no NVDA modifier involved.  And it's not likely that any mute/unmute command is going to be handled by Windows if it only effects a single program.  You can mute/unmute all sound, and that's what's under the control of Windows, but if you're selectively muting the output from Zoom, Go To Meeting, a media player, or similar the command you're using to do that goes with that program.  But regardless, because the classic NVDA modifier key is nowhere to be seen, it's really, really unlikely to be an NVDA command.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed

--
Betsy Grenevitch 678-862-3876


mike mcglashon
 

Quote:

A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

End quote:

         

Yes, but that begs the question,

In today’s technical society of arm’s length available information,

What defines a sensible person?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Sarah k Alawami
 

Oh god, Let’s not go down this rabbit hole, at least, not here.  I’m being a bit facetious. Anyway, interesting discussions. I don’t have demtia, but I do soffer from some memory loss due to some stuff I found out in 2019. So I can understand the confusion that the OP is feeling. Anyway thanks for the learning of all of this guys. Or shall I say relearning as I’m sure I learned all of this before somewhere.

 

----

 

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFfP. We are also on lbry as well.

 

Stay in touch with us via our discord. This is an easier way to both contact us, and get to know your fellow listeners.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 12:26 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

Quote:

A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

End quote:

         

Yes, but that begs the question,

In today’s technical society of arm’s length available information,

What defines a sensible person?

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 11:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] please help with go to Meeting

 

David,

One of my favorite quotations that makes an occasional appearance as my signature:

    A sensible person realizes that all principles that can be expressed in a statement of finite length are oversimplified.

          ~ Robert Heppe

Heaven knows when it comes to trying to make generalities about software that observation is absolutely true.  I'm really glad that you caught what I was trying to do was cover what are "general rules" that do have exceptions, but you can usually figure out when you've got one going on (e.g., the single letter browsing commands, which work only in the screen reader, and nowhere else).

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed