Topics

problem filling out web form


Don H
 

Running Win 10 20h2 and NVDA 2020.4 and using latest version of Google Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
If I go to citracal.com and try to fill out the contact us form Nvda will not allow you to review what you have typed into a edit box nor will it announce the next edit box when you hit tab to move to it. Only way to move to next edit box on the contact us form is to hit escape then tab to the next part of the form. This happens both when using MS Edge and Google chrome. Jaws reads the form correctly.
Here is the exact steps to see the issue.
Go to www.citracal.com
move to the contact us form and hit enteer
move to the combo box that asks for the reason for the contact and tab to continue
now hit e to move to the first edit box which is first name
now try to tab to the next edit box which is last name. Nvda says nothing unless you hit the escape key between each edit box to be filled in.


Gene
 

Unless you are already familiar with a form, leaving forms mode and down arrowing through the form, switching to forms mode when necessary, then switching to browse mode and continuing to down arrow, is a better system than tabbing either in forms mode or browse mode.  You don't know what information you may miss explaining something in the form such as giving an example of what is wanted in a field.does.  There may be other information in forms between fields as well. 
 
Just tabbing in unfamiliar forms causes all sorts of unnecessary problems.
So, while it may be something developers will want to correct, that still doesn't get at a much more serious problem, how so many people fill out unfamiliar forms.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----

From: Don H
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: [nvda] problem filling out web form

Running Win 10 20h2 and NVDA 2020.4 and using latest version of Google
Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
If I go to citracal.com and try to fill out the contact us form Nvda
will not allow you to review what you have typed into a edit box nor
will it announce the next edit box when you hit tab to move to it.  Only
way to move to next edit box on the contact us form is to hit escape
then tab to the next part of the form.  This happens both when using MS
Edge and Google chrome.  Jaws reads the form correctly.
Here is the exact steps to see the issue.
Go to www.citracal.com
move to the contact us form and hit enteer
move to the combo box that asks for the reason for the contact and tab
to continue
now hit e to move to the first edit box which is first name
now try to tab to the next edit box which is last name. Nvda says
nothing unless you hit the escape key between each edit box to be filled
in.






 

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 06:06 PM, Don H wrote:
now hit e to move to the first edit box which is first name
now try to tab to the next edit box which is last name. Nvda says nothing unless you hit the escape key between each edit box to be filled in.
-
There was a discussion of this recently (and I need to find it, as I know I was part of it).

What are you expecting to hear?  I know that if NVDA is not set to read out letters as you type them, there is no way for it to know that a word is complete until you either hit space within an edit box, or tab out of it and then go back to it.  Words get recognized when they "become words" via whitespace of some kind being entered, or when you leave an edit box.  And when you leave an edit box with instant focus (in forms mode) being placed on another edit box makes the screen reader believe, quite logically, that this is what is important now, so it essentially "shuts itself up" before it even could say what you've tabbed out of.

That Escape is another way of signaling that the word is complete, but you have not yet left that edit box, so the word is read.

It's very similar for a much larger text box, where each word is not read until it "becomes a word" via separator, and the whole content of the box only if you do something to exit the box and come back to it, or to move back to the start of the text within the box, and do a "read all".
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Don H
 

A little more info. The problem I described does not occur with firefox. Having to use the escape to get the next edit box to read is not a big issue but when you are typing in a large comment as part of the web form and you can not review what you have typed is a real problem.

On 2/22/2021 5:27 PM, Gene wrote:
Unless you are already familiar with a form, leaving forms mode and down arrowing through the form, switching to forms mode when necessary, then switching to browse mode and continuing to down arrow, is a better system than tabbing either in forms mode or browse mode.  You don't know what information you may miss explaining something in the form such as giving an example of what is wanted in a field.does.  There may be other information in forms between fields as well.
Just tabbing in unfamiliar forms causes all sorts of unnecessary problems.
So, while it may be something developers will want to correct, that still doesn't get at a much more serious problem, how so many people fill out unfamiliar forms.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@adams.net>
*Sent:* Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] problem filling out web form
Running Win 10 20h2 and NVDA 2020.4 and using latest version of Google
Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
If I go to citracal.com and try to fill out the contact us form Nvda
will not allow you to review what you have typed into a edit box nor
will it announce the next edit box when you hit tab to move to it.  Only
way to move to next edit box on the contact us form is to hit escape
then tab to the next part of the form.  This happens both when using MS
Edge and Google chrome.  Jaws reads the form correctly.
Here is the exact steps to see the issue.
Go to www.citracal.com <http://www.citracal.com>
move to the contact us form and hit enteer
move to the combo box that asks for the reason for the contact and tab
to continue
now hit e to move to the first edit box which is first name
now try to tab to the next edit box which is last name. Nvda says
nothing unless you hit the escape key between each edit box to be filled
in.


 

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 06:57 PM, Don H wrote:
Having to use the escape to get the next edit box to read is not a big issue but when you are typing in a large comment as part of the web form and you can not review what you have typed is a real problem.
-
Tab out, shift tab back in (or use a method of your choosing to exit the edit box, then jump right back in to it).  It's a workaround when the problem arises, but a simple one that I have yet to see not work.

And as you've just noted, this seems to be something about how at least one Chromium-based browser does things, and those use a very different rendering engine than Firefox does, which could account for the difference.

I'm not saying this shouldn't be looked into, but there is a quick and easy workaround.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Gene
 

You are talking about the editor being used, evidently.  When I encounter an editor that has this problem, I type and review my comment in Notepad, copy it to the clipboard, then paste it into the edit field on the web site.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem filling out web form

A little more info.  The problem I described does not occur with
firefox.  Having to use the escape to get the next edit box to read is
not a big issue but when you are typing in a large comment as part of
the web form and you can not review what you have typed is a real problem.

On 2/22/2021 5:27 PM, Gene wrote:
> Unless you are already familiar with a form, leaving forms mode and down
> arrowing through the form, switching to forms mode when necessary, then
> switching to browse mode and continuing to down arrow, is a better
> system than tabbing either in forms mode or browse mode.  You don't know
> what information you may miss explaining something in the form such as
> giving an example of what is wanted in a field.does.  There may be other
> information in forms between fields as well.
> Just tabbing in unfamiliar forms causes all sorts of unnecessary problems.
> So, while it may be something developers will want to correct, that
> still doesn't get at a much more serious problem, how so many people
> fill out unfamiliar forms.
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 PM
> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
> *Subject:* [nvda] problem filling out web form
>
> Running Win 10 20h2 and NVDA 2020.4 and using latest version of Google
> Chrome and Microsoft Edge.
> If I go to citracal.com and try to fill out the contact us form Nvda
> will not allow you to review what you have typed into a edit box nor
> will it announce the next edit box when you hit tab to move to it.  Only
> way to move to next edit box on the contact us form is to hit escape
> then tab to the next part of the form.  This happens both when using MS
> Edge and Google chrome.  Jaws reads the form correctly.
> Here is the exact steps to see the issue.
> Go to www.citracal.com <http://www.citracal.com>
> move to the contact us form and hit enteer
> move to the combo box that asks for the reason for the contact and tab
> to continue
> now hit e to move to the first edit box which is first name
> now try to tab to the next edit box which is last name. Nvda says
> nothing unless you hit the escape key between each edit box to be filled
> in.
>
>
>
>
>
>






Sarah k Alawami
 

I've seen this issue. I. have to restart nvda every single time this happens. I did report it on github about a month or 2 ago. Basically what I think happens is you cannot hear what you have tyhped, it looks like ti si frozen but you can select the text and read it that way, right?

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On 22 Feb 2021, at 16:01, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 06:57 PM, Don H wrote:
Having to use the escape to get the next edit box to read is not a big issue but when you are typing in a large comment as part of the web form and you can not review what you have typed is a real problem.
-
Tab out, shift tab back in (or use a method of your choosing to exit the edit box, then jump right back in to it).  It's a workaround when the problem arises, but a simple one that I have yet to see not work.

And as you've just noted, this seems to be something about how at least one Chromium-based browser does things, and those use a very different rendering engine than Firefox does, which could account for the difference.

I'm not saying this shouldn't be looked into, but there is a quick and easy workaround.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov