Problem with Windows calculator


Marco Oros
 

I have a question. I don't know, if It is problem of NVDA. One time I had to reinstall windows Calculator. After this, NVDA stopped me anounced automatically such things, like multiplications, clearing number by numbers and results.

I must press NVDA+up arrow. How to fix this issue?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco


Gene
 

Are you running the Windows Essentials add-on?  That may solve the problem.  My guess is that when you reinstalled the calculator, you got a different version that requires the add-on to read some output automatically.


Gene

On 2/6/2022 3:35 AM, Marco Oros wrote:
I have a question. I don't know, if It is problem of NVDA. One time I had to reinstall windows Calculator. After this, NVDA stopped me anounced automatically such things, like multiplications, clearing number by numbers and results.

I must press NVDA+up arrow. How to fix this issue?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco





 

Which calculator?  There are so many (over the years) Microsoft-issued calculators that run under Windows that it is important to know which one.  I'm presuming the one that "comes with" under Windows 10/11 with the modern universal interface is what's being asked about, but . . .

Personally, I still far prefer, and continue to use, Microsoft Calculator Plus, which I archived long ago.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 


Marco Oros
 

I have this addon, but It didn't work with It.

Dňa 6. 2. 2022 o 16:45 Gene napísal(a):

Are you running the Windows Essentials add-on?  That may solve the problem.  My guess is that when you reinstalled the calculator, you got a different version that requires the add-on to read some output automatically.


Gene

On 2/6/2022 3:35 AM, Marco Oros wrote:
I have a question. I don't know, if It is problem of NVDA. One time I had to reinstall windows Calculator. After this, NVDA stopped me anounced automatically such things, like multiplications, clearing number by numbers and results.

I must press NVDA+up arrow. How to fix this issue?

Thank You.

Best regards

Marco








 

Hi,

Can you tell us the Windows version you have and the version of Calculator you've got? To obtain the latter, from Calculator, press NVDA+F1, look for the line that says "appModule.productVersion", and copy and paste that line as a reply.

Cheers,

Joseph


Richard Wells
 

Here is my favorite Calculator.


https://clcalc.net/

On 2/6/2022 10:02 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Which calculator?  There are so many (over the years) Microsoft-issued calculators that run under Windows that it is important to know which one.  I'm presuming the one that "comes with" under Windows 10/11 with the modern universal interface is what's being asked about, but . . .

Personally, I still far prefer, and continue to use, Microsoft Calculator Plus, which I archived long ago.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 


Marco Oros
 

appModule.productVersion: '10.2103.8.0'


Dňa 6. 2. 2022 o 23:04 Joseph Lee napísal(a):

Hi,

Can you tell us the Windows version you have and the version of Calculator you've got? To obtain the latter, from Calculator, press NVDA+F1, look for the line that says "appModule.productVersion", and copy and paste that line as a reply.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

That's the latest version for Windows 10 at the moment. Which version of Windows 10 and Windows App Essentials add-on do you have?

Cheers,

Joseph


Marco Oros
 

Version is 21H2.


Dňa 7. 2. 2022 o 1:58 Joseph Lee napísal(a):

Hi,

That's the latest version for Windows 10 at the moment. Which version of Windows 10 and Windows App Essentials add-on do you have?

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

I see. Are you talking about NVDA not announcing things when you type expressions in Calculator? If yes, you must enable speak typed characters.

Cheers,

Joseph


Marco Oros
 

No.

Let me explain It deeply:

For example, when I pressed equals, It just say nothing and when I have deleted numbers by using backspace, It says nothing.

Also, I can't update currencies in Windows Calculator.

Dňa 7. 2. 2022 o 16:41 Joseph Lee napísal(a):

Hi,

I see. Are you talking about NVDA not announcing things when you type expressions in Calculator? If yes, you must enable speak typed characters.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 03:58 PM, Marco Oros wrote:
Also, I can't update currencies in Windows Calculator.
-
Just as an aside, the entire Currency conversion part of Calculator is not currently working for me.  And that's with zero involvement of any screen reader.  The screen remains blank except for the number pad.  Contrast that with all the other conversion features, which are operating normally.  I suspect a bug has crept in.

This is another of those circumstances where having an alternative "in your back pocket" makes sense.  For currency conversions (or pretty much any type of conversion) all of the web search engines like Google, DuckDuckGo, etc., do those natively in their search boxes when you enter something like [175 USD in GBP].

There are also a number of other calculator options that can be installed under Windows as fallbacks.  The one any given individual likes best if the occasion arises where it's needed will vary.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

I neither need nor want to be appeased, but apprised.  Inconvenient truth is preferable to convenient (for the liar) lies.

     ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Hi,

I see what's up. I'll come up with a solution soon. Next time, please give us steps to reproduce the problem, complete with keyboard commands please.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi all,

As a follow-up: I will release a development build of Windows App Essentials add-on that will resolve the issue reported in this thread: NVDA does not announce Calculator display content when equals (=) or Backspace key is pressed, traced to the fact that NVDA only knows about a limited number of Calculator hotkeys such as Enter and Delete keys. For users of Windows 10/11 Calculator, do let me know other keys that should be announced when pressed so I can teach NVDA to recognize them with the next stable version of Windows App Essentials add-on.

Cheers,

Joseph


Marco Oros
 

I send You list of keyboard shortcuts for Windows Calculator to apply It in add-on.

https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-calculator-keyboard-shortcuts/

Also, It'll be good, if NVDA announces also change of display, when You press +, -, *, / or =.

Also, thank You for Your help, so maybe It is problem with calculator display.


Dňa 7. 2. 2022 o 23:02 Joseph Lee napísal(a):

Hi all,

As a follow-up: I will release a development build of Windows App Essentials add-on that will resolve the issue reported in this thread: NVDA does not announce Calculator display content when equals (=) or Backspace key is pressed, traced to the fact that NVDA only knows about a limited number of Calculator hotkeys such as Enter and Delete keys. For users of Windows 10/11 Calculator, do let me know other keys that should be announced when pressed so I can teach NVDA to recognize them with the next stable version of Windows App Essentials add-on.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

Another source of Calculator shortcut keys is the app source code (Windows Calculator is open-source and is licensed under MIT License). Note that NVDA doesn't have to add handlers for some shortcuts because NVDA will then announce the results of these commands - all that's required is adding handlers for shortcuts dealing with a specific UIA notification event flag.

There are other shortcuts not announced by NVDA, most of them dealing with scientific calculator mode. There are three ways of resolving this: add these shortcut keys manually, completely rewrite parts of the Calculator app module to let NVDA announce more commands, or remove Calculator support altogether. Each have advantages and drawbacks:

  1. Add shortcut keys manually: this is perhaps the easiest solution - all that needs to be done is add a list of Calculator shortcuts that will result in NVDA announcing calculator display content. The biggest issue is a possibility that Microsoft's Windows Calculator team might change these shortcuts in the future. I'm going to give this a try in the next development build of Windows App Essentials add-on.
  2. Rewrite parts of the Calculator app module: this is a hard solution in that a crucial component of the Calculator app support facility must be rewritten (specifically, UIA notification event handler). The result will be that NVDA will not announce calculator display content when numbers are entered, with the drawback being that Microsoft could change this in the future and NVDA must announce results in currency and unit converters when numbers are entered. I will not be able to attempt this until northern summer (June at the earliest) as school takes priority.
  3. Completely remove Calculator app support: this is perhaps the hardest solution. Although you will hear all sorts of calculator content, this will result in double announcements or gibberish when entering expressions, more so if speak typed characters (NVDA+number row 2) and/or speak command keys (NVDA+number row 4) is on. I'm not willing to do this unless the situation is so severe (as in you must hear specific things) and I have no choice.

Note that what I wrote above will affect Windows 11 users more than Windows 10 users: as far as I know, the latest version of Calculator on Windows 10 is 10.2103.8.0 and Microsoft is unlikely to update it. The latest version for Windows 11 users is 11.2112.3.0 and that's the direction the app is going. What makes this situation frustrating is that not only the layout has changed in Windows 11 Calculator, but the executable name for the app is different, so divergence between Windows 10 and 11 is inevitable. This is why on Windows 11, you will hear expressions as you enter numbers precisely because of these, and Windows App Essentials add-on restores the similar user experience as in Windows 10. This is perhaps why the second solution is hard because I need to keep both Windows 10 and 11 in mind, and the third solution is even harder because of resulting verbosity and inconsistency between Windows and Calculator app releases.

I do admit that this is one of those design misses and not keeping up with changes on a timely manner. This stems from a combination of the age of the add-on source code, not studying Windows Calculator source code thoroughly as I should have done, other changes in Windows 10 that needed my attention such as emoji panel and Settings app, and life priorities. Calculator app module is one of the oldest parts of Windows App Essentials add-on (the oldest part is the now removed Insider Hub app module, so you can consider Calculator app module to be the longest continuously maintained part of the add-on) and kept up with changes throughout Windows 10 era, now extended to Windows 11 era. Microsoft did not make Calculator open-source until March 2019, long after what we can call Windows Calculator made its debut in Windows 10 (in the Windows as a Service (WaaS) age, a "year" is a long time; put it the other way, pace of development has accelerated to a point where revisiting source code after a year is akin to revisiting events from three to five years ago). But then other priorities presented themselves, namely dealing with UI changes in Calculator itself with the introduction of compact overlay mode, keeping an eye on Chromium Edge, emoji panel support refinements, trying to get my head around vast changes in Windows Insider Preview builds, and now, I'm immersing myself deeper into academics. I realize that I should have taken some time to thoroughly study Windows Calculator source code from Microsoft, which would have alerted me to what Marco is talking about much earlier.

At this moment I feel a sense of deep loss and regret, an emotion I rarely display on a public forum like this one. Those who know me knows that I rarely show emotion, especially negative ones in a public space, more so when I led various forums in the past. I intentionally hid negative emotions for reasons of community stability, but it appears the design miss I described above shattered it.

As for Calculator issue under discussion, on one hand I feel I need to take responsibility for the decision I made and come up with solutions as soon as possible. On the other hand, I wish to get away from the add-on development landscape altogether for several months so I can fully concentrate on getting my master's degree and start fresh. But I know that many people count on me, so I will make sure a solution is in place soon.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

For folks uisng Windows App Essentials development builds: February 8th build is now available. Although arithmetic shortcut keys such as + (addition) and * (multiplication) do not let NVDA announce display content, equals (=) key will announce results. Also, added shortcut key definitions for some scientific calculator mode commands such as 2/10 to the power of, trigonometric functions and their inverses, and hyperbolic functions and their inverses. Specifically:

  • S/Shift+S: sine/arc sine
  • O/Shift+O: cosine/arc cosine
  • T/Shift+T: tangent/arc tangent
  • U/Shift+U: secant/arc secant
  • I/Shift+I: cosecant/arc cosecant
  • J: cotangent/arc cotangent

Adding control keys will calculate hyperbolic functions and their inverses. There are other shortcut keys such as round up/down, exponentiation, logarithms, squared/cubed/square root/nth root, absolute value, factorial, and others. I will define shortcut keys for them soon. Note that these shortcut keys will work across Windows 10 and 11 Calculator releases.

As I noted previously, I'm employing an easy solution for now. I will come back to the harder solutions in summer. In the meantime, the solution noted above will be part of the next stable version of Windows App Essentials add-on (tentatively early March 2022 or later).

Cheers,

Joseph


Dave Grossoehme
 

Hi:  I realize that I am chiming in on a late tade for this message.  However, you had written an add on for calculator back when Win 10 was in the beginnings.  If you went back to that add on for NVDA, could you rewrite that add on and save yourself sometime here?  However, on another thought here would the newer version of the coding language, cause a converging problem for this?

Dave


On 2/8/2022 11:26 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Another source of Calculator shortcut keys is the app source code (Windows Calculator is open-source and is licensed under MIT License). Note that NVDA doesn't have to add handlers for some shortcuts because NVDA will then announce the results of these commands - all that's required is adding handlers for shortcuts dealing with a specific UIA notification event flag.

There are other shortcuts not announced by NVDA, most of them dealing with scientific calculator mode. There are three ways of resolving this: add these shortcut keys manually, completely rewrite parts of the Calculator app module to let NVDA announce more commands, or remove Calculator support altogether. Each have advantages and drawbacks:

  1. Add shortcut keys manually: this is perhaps the easiest solution - all that needs to be done is add a list of Calculator shortcuts that will result in NVDA announcing calculator display content. The biggest issue is a possibility that Microsoft's Windows Calculator team might change these shortcuts in the future. I'm going to give this a try in the next development build of Windows App Essentials add-on.
  2. Rewrite parts of the Calculator app module: this is a hard solution in that a crucial component of the Calculator app support facility must be rewritten (specifically, UIA notification event handler). The result will be that NVDA will not announce calculator display content when numbers are entered, with the drawback being that Microsoft could change this in the future and NVDA must announce results in currency and unit converters when numbers are entered. I will not be able to attempt this until northern summer (June at the earliest) as school takes priority.
  3. Completely remove Calculator app support: this is perhaps the hardest solution. Although you will hear all sorts of calculator content, this will result in double announcements or gibberish when entering expressions, more so if speak typed characters (NVDA+number row 2) and/or speak command keys (NVDA+number row 4) is on. I'm not willing to do this unless the situation is so severe (as in you must hear specific things) and I have no choice.

Note that what I wrote above will affect Windows 11 users more than Windows 10 users: as far as I know, the latest version of Calculator on Windows 10 is 10.2103.8.0 and Microsoft is unlikely to update it. The latest version for Windows 11 users is 11.2112.3.0 and that's the direction the app is going. What makes this situation frustrating is that not only the layout has changed in Windows 11 Calculator, but the executable name for the app is different, so divergence between Windows 10 and 11 is inevitable. This is why on Windows 11, you will hear expressions as you enter numbers precisely because of these, and Windows App Essentials add-on restores the similar user experience as in Windows 10. This is perhaps why the second solution is hard because I need to keep both Windows 10 and 11 in mind, and the third solution is even harder because of resulting verbosity and inconsistency between Windows and Calculator app releases.

I do admit that this is one of those design misses and not keeping up with changes on a timely manner. This stems from a combination of the age of the add-on source code, not studying Windows Calculator source code thoroughly as I should have done, other changes in Windows 10 that needed my attention such as emoji panel and Settings app, and life priorities. Calculator app module is one of the oldest parts of Windows App Essentials add-on (the oldest part is the now removed Insider Hub app module, so you can consider Calculator app module to be the longest continuously maintained part of the add-on) and kept up with changes throughout Windows 10 era, now extended to Windows 11 era. Microsoft did not make Calculator open-source until March 2019, long after what we can call Windows Calculator made its debut in Windows 10 (in the Windows as a Service (WaaS) age, a "year" is a long time; put it the other way, pace of development has accelerated to a point where revisiting source code after a year is akin to revisiting events from three to five years ago). But then other priorities presented themselves, namely dealing with UI changes in Calculator itself with the introduction of compact overlay mode, keeping an eye on Chromium Edge, emoji panel support refinements, trying to get my head around vast changes in Windows Insider Preview builds, and now, I'm immersing myself deeper into academics. I realize that I should have taken some time to thoroughly study Windows Calculator source code from Microsoft, which would have alerted me to what Marco is talking about much earlier.

At this moment I feel a sense of deep loss and regret, an emotion I rarely display on a public forum like this one. Those who know me knows that I rarely show emotion, especially negative ones in a public space, more so when I led various forums in the past. I intentionally hid negative emotions for reasons of community stability, but it appears the design miss I described above shattered it.

As for Calculator issue under discussion, on one hand I feel I need to take responsibility for the decision I made and come up with solutions as soon as possible. On the other hand, I wish to get away from the add-on development landscape altogether for several months so I can fully concentrate on getting my master's degree and start fresh. But I know that many people count on me, so I will make sure a solution is in place soon.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

The Calculator add-on - or for that matter, early versions of Windows App Essentials add-on which included the beginnings of Calculator support - is a different thing than what we are dealing with now. When I introduced support for Windows 10 Calculator in 2015, there was no widespread use of live regions and UIA notification event wasn't even in the picture. The interface was different, too. As years went on, Calculator acquired UIA notification event support, and with Windows 11, UI changes were made (these are now part of NVDA proper).

the problem we're dealing with has to do with something that was introduced years after the first versions of Windows 10 Calculator appeared, namely UIA notification event which wasn't introduced until late 2017. Therefore, it is impossible (really) to go back and rewrite Calculator app support based on really early app releases (by the way, the latest Calculator release for Windows 10 requires Version 1803 (build 17134) or later, and we know that Microsoft no longer supports that Windows 10 release). As you suggested, fixing this will require a rewrite, but that rewrite must take the following into account:

  1. What NVDA includes now: as of today's alpha build, NVDA includes support for Windows 11 Calculator based on the code from Windows App Essentials add-on, complete with latest tweaks to UIA notification event handler for Calculator app module. The solution I have in mind involves rethinking this event handler, so it must include what NVDA does now versus a potential solution I may come up in June (see previous communication as to why I said June). I may end up completely rewriting UIA notification event handler for Calculator from scratch, which means I will need to come up with a strategy to tell NV Access that the newer solution should be preferred; that must wait until the newer solution is verified as working, which will take at least a month (stable channel users should report that the new solution is working as expected when implemented).
  2. Calculator changes: things can change in future Calculator releases, and I bet some of them may include changes to how UIA notification event is raised by Calculator itself. In some cases, the user interface may also change, necessitating a repeat of what I did with Windows 11 Calculator. At least folks can glimpse upcoming changes by reading Calculator app source code, but Microsoft can change app development plans.
  3. Windows as a Service: as I noted above, the latest Windows 10 Calculator release (10.2103) requires Windows 10 Version 1803, a feature update that is no longer supported by Microsoft. Realistically speaking, you can assume that anything earlier than 20H2 (build 19042) is considered unsupported (we have long-term support releases such as 1809 and 21H2 but these are meant for mission-critical environments, and 1909 is supported for enterprises until May). Therefore, we can't really go back to the original Calculator release and rewrite things from scratch as the host operating system (early Windows 10 releases) is no longer supported by Microsoft. As a result, the earliest Calculato release I can support is the one that's available to latest Windows 10 release, which happens to be 10.2103 and 21H2 for Calculator and Windows 10, respectively (this means we must deal with UIA notification event handler, something the earliest Calculator app module versions do not even talk about).

In summary, in response to the question of rewriting Calculator app support based on earliest add-on releases, the answer is "no" for the reasons outlined above. In the era of Windows as a Service, we cannot simply ask ourselves to go back to the early days without thinking about what's happening today, more so when dealing with apps that can change without notice.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi everyone,

Update: a huge progress has been made: I thought I can come up with a more intricate solution ( hard solution) by June, but it appears it is already done - I'm testing a harder solution internally and will deploy it to development snapshot users in March (delayed due to school and to test a potential change in NVDA that will impact Windows App Essentials add-on in a fundamental way). I do plan to make this solution available to stable channel subscribers sometime this year, and plan to propose it to NV Access for inclusion by around this time next year.

The solution is not that hard from code perspective, but nevertheless hard because of testing requirements. Basically, the solution involves telling NVDA to stay silent when you enter numbers in Calculator. Because I need to test other Calculator commands, it's taking a while to test all Calculator command combinations. This solution might be tweaked in the future in case Windows and/or the app changes.

Cheers,

Joseph