Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word
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Cristina Ebetiuc
Good afternoon everybody!
I am Looking foreward to receiving your feetback! greetings
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Quentin Christensen
I thought we had an issue for this, but I can't find it just now. These content controls on the developer ribbon have always been problematic in one way or another (and if not in entering them, then in filling in the forms they create). So the other part of this is - what are you trying to make? Word is likely not the best solution for creating something like a form you want people to fill in like this. Something like Google forms are popular for online survey type forms. For something you want people to be able to either fill out on the PC, or print out, use a regular, ordinary table: - Have two columns where the cell in the left column is the label ("name", "address", etc), and the right column is where you type your response - For longer responses, have a full table-width cell with the label ("Please explain why you want to go to Mars?") and a full table-width cell below that to enter the response. A table like this can be printed and filled in by pen, or you can tab through the table and fill in details as appropriate, and it will work for just about everyone. Quentin
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:20 AM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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I have no idea what the conversation was about, but would Microsoft sway work? I’m only going based on your ideas, Quentin. It shows up in another language here in outlook. Sorry if I’m way off base here.
Tc all.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 8:09 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word
I thought we had an issue for this, but I can't find it just now. These content controls on the developer ribbon have always been problematic in one way or another (and if not in entering them, then in filling in the forms they create).
So the other part of this is - what are you trying to make? Word is likely not the best solution for creating something like a form you want people to fill in like this. Something like Google forms are popular for online survey type forms. For something you want people to be able to either fill out on the PC, or print out, use a regular, ordinary table:
- Have two columns where the cell in the left column is the label ("name", "address", etc), and the right column is where you type your response - For longer responses, have a full table-width cell with the label ("Please explain why you want to go to Mars?") and a full table-width cell below that to enter the response.
A table like this can be printed and filled in by pen, or you can tab through the table and fill in details as appropriate, and it will work for just about everyone.
Quentin
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:20 AM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Quentin Christensen
Sarah, This is the second message you've said came through in another languages - it's in English for me, and NVDA reads it in English just fine. I'm trying to think what the issue you are hitting could be - I would have assumed even if you had somehow set Outlook to use another language, it still wouldn't automatically translate messages, just the interface (much like if you set NVDA's interface language to another language, it only changes how NVDA's menus are presented and NVDA messages and words are spoken - not for instance the text of an email.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:15 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Cristina Ebetiuc
Hi!
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Quentin Christensen
Sarah,
This is the second message you've said came through in another languages - it's in English for me, and NVDA reads it in English just fine. I'm trying to think what the issue you are hitting could be - I would have assumed even if you had somehow set Outlook to use another language, it still wouldn't automatically translate messages, just the interface (much like if you set NVDA's interface language to another language, it only changes how NVDA's menus are presented and NVDA messages and words are spoken - not for instance the text of an email.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:15 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen
Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Quentin Christensen
Word itself largely works fine - in writing the Basic Training module, I covered pretty much all the functions of Word (or at least tested them out - there were only a couple, such as these developer forms, which I didn't recommend using) - it's just not a good platform for creating forms with buttons and checkboxes etc.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 9:26 PM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Cristina Ebetiuc
Yes, I see. But what should I do? I still Need this program in my education place.
Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10
Von: Quentin Christensen
Word itself largely works fine - in writing the Basic Training module, I covered pretty much all the functions of Word (or at least tested them out - there were only a couple, such as these developer forms, which I didn't recommend using) - it's just not a good platform for creating forms with buttons and checkboxes etc.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 9:26 PM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen
Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 06:17 AM, Cristina Ebetiuc wrote:
I still Need this program in my education place.- And I still can't figure out what you can't access. Everything I've tried to fire up on the Developer ribbon works. You need to be more specific about what it is you're trying to achieve and where the process breaks down. -- Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042 The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself. ~ Brian Vogel
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Bob Cavanaugh
That is indeed odd, as all your messages come in in English for me.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Christina's messages however read in another language using Gmail's web interface. When Brian quotes them, they come through in English. This has happened occasionally on this list, and only this list.
On 2/1/21, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
Sarah,
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I have not changed anything. I don't even know how to read anything other than English. But her messages come through in French or something like that.
Here is the odd thing. If I select, I can read the message but if I just listen, at least with my speech synth it comes out in some odd language. I even tried with espeak. Here is a very short file of what I mean. I dun no even how I should submit this to GitHub as this might be a picnic error, at least for the 2 of us who hear it.
-----Original Message-----
That is indeed odd, as all your messages come in in English for me. Christina's messages however read in another language using Gmail's web interface. When Brian quotes them, they come through in English. This has happened occasionally on this list, and only this list.
On 2/1/21, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote: > Sarah, > > This is the second message you've said came through in another > languages - it's in English for me, and NVDA reads it in English just > fine. I'm trying to think what the issue you are hitting could be - > I would have assumed even if you had somehow set Outlook to use > another language, it still wouldn't automatically translate messages, > just the interface (much like if you set NVDA's interface language to > another language, it only changes how NVDA's menus are presented and > NVDA messages and words are spoken - not for instance the text of an email. > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:15 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote: > >> I have no idea what the conversation was about, but would Microsoft >> sway work? I’m only going based on your ideas, Quentin. It shows up >> in another language here in outlook. Sorry if I’m way off base here. >> >> >> >> Tc all. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of >> *Quentin Christensen >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 31, 2021 8:09 PM >> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io >> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word >> >> >> >> I thought we had an issue for this, but I can't find it just now. >> These content controls on the developer ribbon have always been >> problematic in one way or another (and if not in entering them, then >> in filling in the forms they create). >> >> >> >> So the other part of this is - what are you trying to make? Word is >> likely not the best solution for creating something like a form you >> want people to fill in like this. Something like Google forms are >> popular for online survey type forms. For something you want people >> to be able to either fill out on the PC, or print out, use a regular, ordinary table: >> >> >> >> - Have two columns where the cell in the left column is the label >> ("name", "address", etc), and the right column is where you type your >> response >> >> - For longer responses, have a full table-width cell with the label >> ("Please explain why you want to go to Mars?") and a full table-width >> cell below that to enter the response. >> >> >> >> A table like this can be printed and filled in by pen, or you can tab >> through the table and fill in details as appropriate, and it will >> work for just about everyone. >> >> >> >> Quentin >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:20 AM Cristina Ebetiuc >> <ebetiucristina@...> >> wrote: >> >> Good afternoon everybody! >> I have got some issues with NVDA in relation with Formulars in word. >> >> 1. NVDA doesn’t Show the old Formulars from the developer Tools. I t >> Looks like they have iven not been incerted. >> 2. NVDA Shows the new Formulars from the developer Tools but does not >> read the names. I have called a chekbox yes, but NVDA does not >> Show the >> Name. Nothing does not work nor in read mode neither in Focus >> mode. Can you >> helpp me further? >> >> I am Looking foreward to receiving your feetback! >> >> greetings >> >> >> >> Gesendet von Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> >> für Windows 10 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Quentin Christensen >> Training and Support Manager >> >> >> >> Web: www.nvaccess.org >> >> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ >> >> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ >> >> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda >> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess >> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Quentin Christensen > Training and Support Manager > > Web: www.nvaccess.org > Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ > Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ > User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess > Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess> > > > > > >
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Louise Pfau
Hi Sarah. It's reading English with a German accent. Interestingly, when I read the subject line using the groups.io web interface, it did the same thing for me when reading the colon in "re:", but not the rest of the information. I'm using the Windows OneCore voices.
Louise
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Hmm, I’m using outlook over here. As I demonstrated, if I select, I can read it in the English voice. But if I just up and down arrow it reads in the German accent or what ever you said. If I said French in the recording, I apologize deeply.
Well, I do hope that the OP gets their problem fixed either in excel or if they need a form by using sway or google forms.
Good luck and happy Monday.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau
Hi Sarah. It's reading English with a German accent. Interestingly, when I read the subject line using the groups.io web interface, it did the same thing for me when reading the colon in "re:", but not the rest of the information. I'm using the Windows OneCore voices.
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Gene
It has to do with automatic language switching. HTML identifies the language being used and if automatic language switching is on in NVDA and supported by the synthesizer being used, the symthesizer will try to speak in the language designated in the HTML.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I don't know enough about the setting to discuss turning it off nor which synthesizers support it. Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:31 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word I have not changed anything. I don't even know how to read anything other than English. But her messages come through in French or something like that. Here is the odd thing. If I select, I can read the message but if I just listen, at least with my speech synth it comes out in some odd language. I even tried with espeak. Here is a very short file of what I mean. I dun no even how I should submit this to GitHub as this might be a picnic error, at least for the 2 of us who hear it. Link to db file is here. -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf of Bob Cavanaugh Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 11:46 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word That is indeed odd, as all your messages come in in English for me. Christina's messages however read in another language using Gmail's web interface. When Brian quotes them, they come through in English. This has happened occasionally on this list, and only this list. On 2/1/21, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote: Sarah, This is the second message you've said came through in another languages - it's in English for me, and NVDA reads it in English just fine. I'm trying to think what the issue you are hitting could be - I would have assumed even if you had somehow set Outlook to use another language, it still wouldn't automatically translate messages, just the interface (much like if you set NVDA's interface language to another language, it only changes how NVDA's menus are presented and NVDA messages and words are spoken - not for instance the text of an email. On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:15 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote: I have no idea what the conversation was about, but would Microsoft sway work? I’m only going based on your ideas, Quentin. It shows up in another language here in outlook. Sorry if I’m way off base here. Tc all. *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen *Sent:* Sunday, January 31, 2021 8:09 PM *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word I thought we had an issue for this, but I can't find it just now. These content controls on the developer ribbon have always been problematic in one way or another (and if not in entering them, then in filling in the forms they create). So the other part of this is - what are you trying to make? Word is likely not the best solution for creating something like a form you want people to fill in like this. Something like Google forms are popular for online survey type forms. For something you want people to be able to either fill out on the PC, or print out, use a regular, ordinary table: - Have two columns where the cell in the left column is the label ("name", "address", etc), and the right column is where you type your response - For longer responses, have a full table-width cell with the label ("Please explain why you want to go to Mars?") and a full table-width cell below that to enter the response. A table like this can be printed and filled in by pen, or you can tab through the table and fill in details as appropriate, and it will work for just about everyone. Quentin On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:20 AM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@gmail.com> wrote: Good afternoon everybody! I have got some issues with NVDA in relation with Formulars in word. 1. NVDA doesn’t Show the old Formulars from the developer Tools. I t Looks like they have iven not been incerted. 2. NVDA Shows the new Formulars from the developer Tools but does not read the names. I have called a chekbox yes, but NVDA does not Show the Name. Nothing does not work nor in read mode neither in Focus mode. Can you helpp me further? I am Looking foreward to receiving your feetback! greetings Gesendet von Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10 -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess> -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
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Quentin Christensen
If you disable 'Automatic language switching" does it make a difference? I just had a quick look at the code and for me the only Lang attribute I can find on the page (reading the original message in GMail's web interface) is in the HTML tag itself: <html lang="en"> Very curious.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:33 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: It has to do with automatic language switching. HTML identifies the --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Gene
That's what is telling the screen-reader to use whatever language is specified. There is also a dialect tag. I don't know if they are generally both used, but I've seen complaints from people who go to a web page and their screen-reader suddenly starts speaking with a different English accent.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
My understanding is that turning off automatic language switching will stop this behavior. Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 5:07 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word If you disable 'Automatic language switching" does it make a difference? I just had a quick look at the code and for me the only Lang attribute I can find on the page (reading the original message in GMail's web interface) is in the HTML tag itself: <html lang="en"> Very curious. On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:33 AM Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote: It has to do with automatic language switching. HTML identifies the language being used and if automatic language switching is on in NVDA and supported by the synthesizer being used, the symthesizer will try to speak in the language designated in the HTML. I don't know enough about the setting to discuss turning it off nor which synthesizers support it. Gene -----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami Sent: Monday, February 01, 2021 2:31 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word I have not changed anything. I don't even know how to read anything other than English. But her messages come through in French or something like that. Here is the odd thing. If I select, I can read the message but if I just listen, at least with my speech synth it comes out in some odd language. I even tried with espeak. Here is a very short file of what I mean. I dun no even how I should submit this to GitHub as this might be a picnic error, at least for the 2 of us who hear it. Link to db file is here. -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf of Bob Cavanaugh Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 11:46 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word That is indeed odd, as all your messages come in in English for me. Christina's messages however read in another language using Gmail's web interface. When Brian quotes them, they come through in English. This has happened occasionally on this list, and only this list. On 2/1/21, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote: Sarah, This is the second message you've said came through in another languages - it's in English for me, and NVDA reads it in English just fine. I'm trying to think what the issue you are hitting could be - I would have assumed even if you had somehow set Outlook to use another language, it still wouldn't automatically translate messages, just the interface (much like if you set NVDA's interface language to another language, it only changes how NVDA's menus are presented and NVDA messages and words are spoken - not for instance the text of an On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 3:15 PM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote: I have no idea what the conversation was about, but would Microsoft sway work? I’m only going based on your ideas, Quentin. It shows up in another language here in outlook. Sorry if I’m way off base here. Tc all. *From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen *Sent:* Sunday, January 31, 2021 8:09 PM *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word I thought we had an issue for this, but I can't find it just now. These content controls on the developer ribbon have always been problematic in one way or another (and if not in entering them, then in filling in the forms they create). So the other part of this is - what are you trying to make? Word is likely not the best solution for creating something like a form you want people to fill in like this. Something like Google forms are popular for online survey type forms. For something you want people to be able to either fill out on the PC, or print out, use a regular, - Have two columns where the cell in the left column is the label ("name", "address", etc), and the right column is where you type your response - For longer responses, have a full table-width cell with the label ("Please explain why you want to go to Mars?") and a full table-width cell below that to enter the response. A table like this can be printed and filled in by pen, or you can tab through the table and fill in details as appropriate, and it will work for just about everyone. Quentin On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:20 AM Cristina Ebetiuc <ebetiucristina@gmail.com> wrote: Good afternoon everybody! I have got some issues with NVDA in relation with Formulars in word. 1. NVDA doesn’t Show the old Formulars from the developer Tools. I t Looks like they have iven not been incerted. 2. NVDA Shows the new Formulars from the developer Tools but does not read the names. I have called a chekbox yes, but NVDA does not Show the Name. Nothing does not work nor in read mode neither in Focus mode. Can you helpp me further? I am Looking foreward to receiving your feetback! greetings Gesendet von Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> für Windows 10 -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess> -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess> -- Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Well, I won’t worry about it for now. It’s not a big deal. Now I know what to do should that happen again.
Thanks all.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2021 3:07 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Problems with NVDA and Formulars in MS word
If you disable 'Automatic language switching" does it make a difference?
I just had a quick look at the code and for me the only Lang attribute I can find on the page (reading the original message in GMail's web interface) is in the HTML tag itself: <html lang="en">
Very curious.
On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 8:33 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
-- Quentin Christensen
Web: www.nvaccess.org Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Louise Pfau
Hi. Thanks for the tip. I had to turn off language detection for this particular page, because it was reading all of the punctuation marks in German, but the rest of the text in English. Sarah, I'm not offended that you thought it was French. I'm no longer fluent, but I knew enough to know what it was doing.
Louise
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