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Protonmail


Marco Oros
 

Hello.

Have You use Protonmail with NVDA and Thunderbird?

Please, how to use NVDA with bridge client? I would like to use my protonmail address with Thunderbird.

Have You somebody some experiences with that?

Thank You.

Marco


Jesse Farquharson
 

Hello Marco,

Sadly I haven't been able to access the code that is needed to run the bridge successfully. You may need sighted assistance if you can get it. Alternatively, I would try e-mailing ProtonMail support. Explain what a screenreader is and why you use it if you can, and maybe they can help you somehow.

Good luck.


Luke Davis
 

Okay, this thread prompted me to finally get around to trying out the ProtonMail bridge, which you can only use with a paid account.

And, over two hours later, I can finally report on the results.

First, the bridge help documents are good, but really annoyingly designed, so you have to click next for each step. That said, the URL you'll want for that, is:
https://mail.protonmail.com/bridge

Install the bridge.

Run the bridge.

Choose OK in the dialog which opens. This dialog is weird: for me it didn't read or even focus automatically, but I was able to alt+tab to it, and read it with object nav. It just tells you to add an account, so it's safe to select OK.
After selecting OK, you are in a probably non-speaking window. Use object nav to move to the right (NVDA+numpad 6), until you reach "add account", and select it with NVDA+numpad enter.

You are then in a field for entering your ProtonMail email address. Enter it, press tab, and enter your password.
The instructions say you may also have to enter a second password, or 2FA code here.
Then press tab again twice, to "next", and press it.
Once again, nothing talks after this. You are hopefully in a window that says that you have successfully added your account, object nav again to the rescue.
You can probably choose OK or close here, either way you should return to the main window.

The instructions say to click on mailbox config, to learn how to connect. However there is no mailbox config evident on the main screen when tabbing around.
To find it, tab to your address, and again use object nav. Previous object says "expand row". I'm not sure if you need this, but I did it.
After that (assuming that was necessary), next object will give you options such as: switch to split address mode, and mail configuration.

If you are going to switch to split address mode, I suggest doing it before you set anything up in your mail program.

Here is where the most inaccessible part arises. Pressing mail configuration, which you need to do to get your access information, seems to only result in a "help balloon", which you can only get to with alt+tab, although actually you can't read it at all, even though it claims you have switched to it.
I tried everything I could think of to get there and read this, but could not.

It was after switching to Narrator, that I realized that Windows Defender was blocking features of the bridge. After allowing the bridge, I switched back to NVDA.

I still could not get object nav (or any other kind), to work in the window that was displaying (the mail configuration window).
However, by going back to the desktop, I was able to use object nav to go to the parent object, then the next object which was the window with my email address as its name.

After that, I next objected through the window menu (close, minimize, etc.), and then the next thing I knew I was hearing the host name (127.0.0.1), the IMAP port (1143), and all the other information! (SMTP port is 1025.)

Each element had its own copy to clipboard button. I thought the copy button would be especially useful for the password, but NVDA+C reported nothing copied.
Interestingly enough, however, I was able to use NVDA+F9 to mark start, review cursor right by character (numpad 3) to the end of the password, and then NVDA+F10 to mark end, and thereby copy the password to the clipboard.

The bridge requires starttls in your mail program, and runs on unusual ports, but otherwise uses normal SMTP and IMAP. They have help pages on configuring all of the common mail apps.

I could not find any way to get out of the Mail Configuration part of the bridge, other than by closing and restarting the bridge.

I hope this all helps someone.

Please, to anyone using ProtonMail, write to their support and ask them to improve the accessibility of the bridge!

Luke


Jesse Farquharson
 

Luke,

I poked them on Twitter earlier today, but as with any company, I doubt they will listen to just one voice. Their handle is, predictably, @ProtonMail.

Shall we make some more noise?


Luke Davis
 

Yes. I might be persuaded to see if my old twitter handle still works, just for this.

But that aside, I'm curious if you're able to get the bridge working, following my process. Hopefully in much less the time.

Luke

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

I poked them on Twitter earlier today, but as with any company, I doubt they will listen to just one voice. Their handle is, predictably, @ProtonMail.
Shall we make some more noise?


Jesse Farquharson
 

Hey Luke,

I will not be trying this now, as there's very little point. This computer is gonna be saying byebye in a very short while anyway, as I'm getting a new one this weekend or so. I will try it then... if I remember.


 

Hmmm sounds like the bridge is a disgusting mess and not worth my time.
I wander if you could run without it in the first place.
I wander if the devs of this actually would help fixing their mess.
Then again, why should I use proton mail when gmail is actually more
accessible, in fact a lot of programs now at least newer ones support
the new security protocol google uses which makes them recognised as
secured apps.

On 12/08/2020, Jesse Farquharson <jesse100rules@...> wrote:
Hey Luke,

I will not be trying this now, as there's very little point. This computer
is gonna be saying byebye in a very short while anyway, as I'm getting a new
one this weekend or so. I will try it then... if I remember.




Jesse Farquharson
 

Primarily, Shaun, because Google couldn't give a **** about you, your privacy, or your data. As long as they make money off of you, they're happy.

The advantage of ProtonMail is that you can actually encrypt your e-mails, so that unless someone has physical access to the device you are logged in on, or the device your recipient is receiving from, no one can intercept your message.

The bridge is usable, and you will only have to use it once. After that, you shouldn't have to open it again. It just allows your preferred client to access your ProtonMail account.

I will go on the record here stating that the interface on the web is fully accessible. The iOS app has certain... quirks, but can still be used once you know what you're dealing with.

From what I've seen, Proton Support is very responsive. We just have to figure out how to communicate with them the right way.


Luke Davis
 

Shaun, from your comments, it seems evident that you have no idea what ProtonMail is.

ProtonMail is not just encrypted to and from their network. It's encrypted within their network, so not even they can access your mail. In the past, gmail has freely admitted that they accessed your mail, and used it for advertising purposes.
Proton is not subject to U.S. laws; it operates under Swiss privacy law, and the GDPR.
Gmail does not.

Proton does not keep logs of accesses, and does not require your name in order to sign up.

And the bridge is necessary only if you want to access Proton mail in your own mail apps; you can not without it, because they do not offer IMAP or SMTP service directly, only through the bridge.

Without the bridge, you can only access it through the website, or the mobile apps.

I hope this clarifies.

Luke

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Hmmm sounds like the bridge is a disgusting mess and not worth my time.
I wander if you could run without it in the first place.
I wander if the devs of this actually would help fixing their mess.
Then again, why should I use proton mail when gmail is actually more
accessible, in fact a lot of programs now at least newer ones support
the new security protocol google uses which makes them recognised as
secured apps.


Luke Davis
 

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

The bridge is usable, and you will only have to use it once. After that, you shouldn't have to open it again. It just allows your preferred client to access
your ProtonMail account.
A slight correction here. You have to configure it once. But you have to run it in the background all the time, or have it start automatically.

It is running a local IMAP and SMTP server on your machine, which then encrypts and delivers into and out of the ProtonMail network.

So you do need to have the bridge running any time you want to be able to access Proton from within Thunderbird or Outlook or whatever.
But fortunately after that initial config, all you should have to do (from my few hours of playing with it) is start and minimize it.

Luke


Jesse Farquharson
 

Right right, Luke. Basically what I meant was you don't have to do anything significant with it beyond the initial setup. :-)


Marco Oros
 

Hello.

Thanks for Your answers, but It means, that I must pay for Bridge, or what?

I don't know, where to contact Protonmail, because It is also very used, as gmail by this, which I have read on internet.

But, how to explain good my problems? Maybe there isn't any person, who is blind in the Protonmail team.


Jesse Farquharson
 

Hello,

The bridge is a feature which can be accessed by any of the paid plans, but unfortunately not for free. You can still use the web interface though.


 

Hmmm the bridge sounds a mess.

At any rate why would I want to use protonmail web when I can use gmail without any message limits on thunderbird.

I guess I could set up an encripted email on proton if I were that concerned which I am not.

I am not doing anything wrong anywhere.

Why can't I just set up pgp if I really want to do this, thunderbird supports it.

So google make money, our personal information is up for sale, and they give us so much free services, services which would cost a lot otherwise.

Is it worth the loss of privacy.

Put it this way, it is secure, and I have really good uptime.

Pluss the os, the gps, the maps, email, hangouts, chrome, the list goes on and on and on.

And its why I bother with google adds even.

They are giving me enough that I feel I don't mind selling my private info to them, as long as they continue to give me remote services like captcha for my site and it all works and translation and image discriptions and other things like they do, oh and youtube, music and otherwise, its worth my privacy.

Back on dialup days I can remember a 10 mb storage limit, 2.50 dollars an hour, 2 bucks for an email address a month.

I think the issue with a lot of new people is they forget before the cloud it actually cost a lot to be online.

Being private is fine, but on the other hand if google were an isp to I'd also get into it.



On 13/08/2020 2:27 am, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

Hello,

The bridge is a feature which can be accessed by any of the paid plans, but unfortunately not for free. You can still use the web interface though.


Jesse Farquharson
 

THat's where you're wrong, though. Google is absolutely not secure. They claim they are, but until they use end to end encryption on e-mails and Google searches and other such things, it's all a lie.

Luke, if you're reading this, regarding your point about getting the mailbox configuration thing to show up, yes, you do have to select expand row for that to work. I am trying the process on my new machine and so far your steps are working for me.


Gene
 

Unless someone is sending personal or confidential information, they may not care.  I don't think any possible sbnooper is going to be interested in reading my mail, which mostly is e-mail list mail. 


Gene

On 8/16/2020 2:57 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

THat's where you're wrong, though. Google is absolutely not secure. They claim they are, but until they use end to end encryption on e-mails and Google searches and other such things, it's all a lie.

Luke, if you're reading this, regarding your point about getting the mailbox configuration thing to show up, yes, you do have to select expand row for that to work. I am trying the process on my new machine and so far your steps are working for me.


Gene
 

Unless someone is sending personal or confidential information, they may not care.  I don't think any possible sbnooper is going to be interested in reading my mail, which mostly is e-mail list mail. 


Gene

On 8/16/2020 2:57 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

THat's where you're wrong, though. Google is absolutely not secure. They claim they are, but until they use end to end encryption on e-mails and Google searches and other such things, it's all a lie.

Luke, if you're reading this, regarding your point about getting the mailbox configuration thing to show up, yes, you do have to select expand row for that to work. I am trying the process on my new machine and so far your steps are working for me.


Sarah k Alawami
 

Straying a bit but just to point out the following. If I'm a company looking for ways to sell my product, I can in theory mine the data from your list emails and know what you like, what you don't like, and suggest products to you that you didn't even know you wanted. This is called data mining, and every single big company does this. Ok, hopping off of my soap box now.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 16 Aug 2020, at 13:14, Gene wrote:

Unless someone is sending personal or confidential information, they may not care.  I don't think any possible sbnooper is going to be interested in reading my mail, which mostly is e-mail list mail. 


Gene

On 8/16/2020 2:57 PM, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

THat's where you're wrong, though. Google is absolutely not secure. They claim they are, but until they use end to end encryption on e-mails and Google searches and other such things, it's all a lie.

Luke, if you're reading this, regarding your point about getting the mailbox configuration thing to show up, yes, you do have to select expand row for that to work. I am trying the process on my new machine and so far your steps are working for me.


Jesse Farquharson
 

Pretty much, Sarah. Google's ecosystem allows this in spades. Proton's, however, does not make money off of advertisements or data collection. They rely on user subscriptions and you get everything in one package. ProtonMail, Proton Calendar, ProtonVPN, and other services I may not be remembering. There are no ads in any of its services, and they don't own a search engine as far as I'm aware.

Anyhow, I've mostly managed to set things up. I'm just having issues creating or authorizing the outgoing mail certificate. Nothing I've tried works.


Sarah k Alawami
 

My usual question. Has anyone written to the company in regard to accessible or lack thereof in terms of this bridge thing? I've heard of this through my brave adds, but I don't really need it as I use fast mail for most of my communications which does the same thing pretty much.

If you or anyone has written to the company, and given them links to screen reader resources what has been their response if any?

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 17 Aug 2020, at 10:51, Jesse Farquharson wrote:

Pretty much, Sarah. Google's ecosystem allows this in spades. Proton's, however, does not make money off of advertisements or data collection. They rely on user subscriptions and you get everything in one package. ProtonMail, Proton Calendar, ProtonVPN, and other services I may not be remembering. There are no ads in any of its services, and they don't own a search engine as far as I'm aware.

Anyhow, I've mostly managed to set things up. I'm just having issues creating or authorizing the outgoing mail certificate. Nothing I've tried works.