Topics

Read-all problem with a website


Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all,

I subscribe to a regular email called Pulse, Writings from the world of Medicine. Their emails have recently changed so that you get to read the first paragraph and then have to visit a website to read the rest of the article.

I find that this website doesn't work very smoothly with NVDA using the Read All method, and I'm wondering if other people have the same result.

so you can hear what I hear, I recorded the first few paragraphs and the mp3 file is saved on my website space. What you'll hear is that the end few words of a paragraph get repeated at the start of the next paragraph, and sometimes good chunks of a sentence don't get spoken at all (the text not being spoken isn't quite so evident in the mp3 extract, but it was very noticeable further down the article). This is the link to my mp3 extract:
http://gilesturnbullpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Pulse-article-A-Question-of-Trust.mp3

And this is the link to the actual website article:
https://pulsevoices.org/index.php/stories/a-question-of-trust

Just to clarify, the repeated words are not repeated in the actual text, and the skipped words are present in the actual text.

In the recording I'm using the SAPI5 voice Zira at speed 85, and I can confirm it is also producing the same effects at slower speeds, as it is if I change the voice to SAPI5 voice Hazel. I'm using NVDA Version: 2020.1, windows 10 Version 1903 (OS Build 18362.900), and am getting these effects in both Mozilla Firefox version 78.0.1 (64-bit) and Google Chrome (which is up to date) Version 83.0.4103.116 (Official Build) (64-bit)

Does anybody know if this is an NVDA issue, or if it's something I can report to the Pulse organisation for them to hopefully sort out?

Thanks,

Giles


Gene
 

I don't know what is causing the problems. Try a different synthesizer. I don't know what voices are available to you but you should be able to test with e-speak. If you want to hear the article read by the same voice you are using, try selecting the page once its loaded, control a, then copying it to the clipboard.
Open Notepad and paste it in. Search for the beginning of the article, or for the title, something you know is there and that will be easy to find. You can probably just search for two, three, or maybe four words of the title or the first sentence. In this case, I just searched for the words a question.

You shouldn't have any problems reading in Notepad.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Giles Turnbull
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 5:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Read-all problem with a website

Hi all,

I subscribe to a regular email called Pulse, Writings from the world of Medicine. Their emails have recently changed so that you get to read the first paragraph and then have to visit a website to read the rest of the article.

I find that this website doesn't work very smoothly with NVDA using the Read All method, and I'm wondering if other people have the same result.

so you can hear what I hear, I recorded the first few paragraphs and the mp3 file is saved on my website space. What you'll hear is that the end few words of a paragraph get repeated at the start of the next paragraph, and sometimes good chunks of a sentence don't get spoken at all (the text not being spoken isn't quite so evident in the mp3 extract, but it was very noticeable further down the article). This is the link to my mp3 extract:
http://gilesturnbullpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Pulse-article-A-Question-of-Trust.mp3

And this is the link to the actual website article:
https://pulsevoices.org/index.php/stories/a-question-of-trust

Just to clarify, the repeated words are not repeated in the actual text, and the skipped words are present in the actual text.

In the recording I'm using the SAPI5 voice Zira at speed 85, and I can confirm it is also producing the same effects at slower speeds, as it is if I change the voice to SAPI5 voice Hazel. I'm using NVDA Version: 2020.1, windows 10 Version 1903 (OS Build 18362.900), and am getting these effects in both Mozilla Firefox version 78.0.1 (64-bit) and Google Chrome (which is up to date) Version 83.0.4103.116 (Official Build) (64-bit)

Does anybody know if this is an NVDA issue, or if it's something I can report to the Pulse organisation for them to hopefully sort out?

Thanks,

Giles


Amir
 

Greetings,

I can duplicate this using Chrome 83 official and the latest NVDA alpha release (20514). Some words are omitted and some words are repeated in continuous reading, and it seems to be TTS-independent. I first thought the website might refresh (something which might generate such issues while reading), but it seems that no refresh is at work, or at least I can't notice it.

Best,
Amir


 

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 06:01 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
https://pulsevoices.org/index.php/stories/a-question-of-trust
By any chance, are you hearing the phrases, or part of the phrases:
fostering the humanistic practice of medicine
encouraging health care advocacy
publishing personal accounts of illness and healing? 

There is a single "ticker box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web design speak) at the very top of the page that keeps alternating between these phrases once every several seconds.

If you're using a browser that has a reader mode, I'd definitely suggest trying it before commencing reading the page.

I tried listening to your recording, and a big thanks for that, but the reading rate is a bit more rapid than I can follow.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Amir
 
Edited

Sometimes single words are repeated, but most notably the first few words of most sentences are omitted, and NVDA picks up reading from the middle of the third or fourth word.

Cheers,
Amir


Gene
 

I just looked at what you are discussing. It is either not specified to be an Aria live region or it is sset to off. I don't hear any text spoken when it changes, though I can read the line repeatedly and hear it change.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 10:08 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read-all problem with a website

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 06:01 AM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
https://pulsevoices.org/index.php/stories/a-question-of-trustBy any chance, are you hearing the phrases, or part of the phrases:
fostering the humanistic practice of medicine
encouraging health care advocacy
publishing personal accounts of illness and healing?

There is a single "ticker box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web design speak) at the very top of the page that keeps alternating between these phrases once every several seconds.

If you're using a browser that has a reader mode, I'd definitely suggest trying it before commencing reading the page.

I tried listening to your recording, and a big thanks for that, but the reading rate is a bit more rapid than I can follow.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform. Now, you simply declare your own truth.

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019


Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Brian,

thank you for listening to the audio file. I've recorded a second version at a slower pace in case you'd like to listen again. It's funny, I have had blind friends who listen much faster than I do, so I always assume I'm at the slower end of the blind reading-speeds chart!

The slower-rate mp3 file is at this link:
http://gilesturnbullpoet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Pulse-article-A-Question-of-Trust-2.mp3

Thanks for the suggestion about the reader mode for a browser. I have heard of this and tried it once when it was mentioned recently, but I haven't tried it on the website I'm having issues with.

Giles


Luke Davis
 

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

personal accounts of illness and healing? There is a single "ticker box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web design speak) at the
They used to be called marquees. Generated by the marquee element.

Now I think their just called live regions, and I believe there are a few ways to implement them.
I don't have access to an NVDA machine right now to find out if "Report dynamic content changes" (NVDA+5) has any effect on this.

Luke


 

Hi,
Report dynamic content changes setting is most effective in terminals, but
that's about to change to include web applications (not in a distant
future).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read-all problem with a website

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

personal accounts of illness and healing? There is a single "ticker
box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web
design speak) at the
They used to be called marquees. Generated by the marquee element.

Now I think their just called live regions, and I believe there are a few
ways to implement them.
I don't have access to an NVDA machine right now to find out if "Report
dynamic content changes" (NVDA+5) has any effect on this.

Luke


CARLOS-ESTEBAN
 

Hello.
The solution is the reader mode of the browser.
In chrome, go to the page chrome://flags. In edit box search write reader mode. In the option reader mode, select enabled in the combo box and press the button relaunch.
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musicien (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mié., 8 de jul. de 2020 a la(s) 11:53, Joseph Lee (joseph.lee22590@...) escribió:
Hi,
Report dynamic content changes setting is most effective in terminals, but
that's about to change to include web applications (not in a distant
future).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read-all problem with a website

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

> personal accounts of illness and healing? There is a single "ticker
> box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web
> design speak) at the

They used to be called marquees. Generated by the marquee element.

Now I think their just called live regions, and I believe there are a few
ways to implement them.
I don't have access to an NVDA machine right now to find out if "Report
dynamic content changes" (NVDA+5) has any effect on this.

Luke








CARLOS-ESTEBAN
 

Sorry for not say how use the reader mode.
When the reader mode is enabled, you can press f6. Here, press tab two times and press the button enable reader mode (or similar name, I have all in spanish).
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musicien (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mié., 8 de jul. de 2020 a la(s) 12:22, Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías (carlosestebanpianista@...) escribió:
Hello.
The solution is the reader mode of the browser.
In chrome, go to the page chrome://flags. In edit box search write reader mode. In the option reader mode, select enabled in the combo box and press the button relaunch.
Regards.

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.
Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios con discapacidad visual en el
uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.
Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.

Musicien (pianist) and also help to users with a visual disability in the use of screen readers and technology.
Certified expert in screen reader NVDA.



El mié., 8 de jul. de 2020 a la(s) 11:53, Joseph Lee (joseph.lee22590@...) escribió:
Hi,
Report dynamic content changes setting is most effective in terminals, but
that's about to change to include web applications (not in a distant
future).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Read-all problem with a website

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020, Brian Vogel wrote:

> personal accounts of illness and healing? There is a single "ticker
> box" (I have no idea what these things are actually called in web
> design speak) at the

They used to be called marquees. Generated by the marquee element.

Now I think their just called live regions, and I believe there are a few
ways to implement them.
I don't have access to an NVDA machine right now to find out if "Report
dynamic content changes" (NVDA+5) has any effect on this.

Luke








 

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 01:23 PM, CARLOS-ESTEBAN wrote:
chrome://flags
This page, the flags page, is available in all Chromium-based browsers I've tried so far.  What's even more interesting is if you paste this address in on new Edge or on Brave it will automatically convert the "chrome:" portion to the correct specifier for the browser in question.

Under Brave, it's got straight enable reader mode like Chrome does.

Edge has two separate bits related to what the call immersive reader.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 


Jackie
 

Giles, Brian V is a sighted adaptive technologist. He's very good at
what he does, & he is incredibly helpful to us on so many levels, but
he likely doesn't use speech as his primary means of information
gathering like we do.

On 7/8/20, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 01:23 PM, CARLOS-ESTEBAN wrote:


chrome://flags
This page, the flags page, is available in all Chromium-based browsers I've
tried so far.  What's even more interesting is if you paste this address in
on new Edge or on Brave it will automatically convert the "chrome:" portion
to the correct specifier for the browser in question.

Under Brave, it's got straight enable reader mode like Chrome does.

Edge has two separate bits related to what the call immersive reader.

--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

*Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its
platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.*

~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment
Took Hold in the United States (
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/health/anti-vaccination-movement-us.html
) , September 23, 2019



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On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 01:43 PM, Jackie wrote:
but he likely doesn't use speech as his primary means of information gathering like we do.
Certainly not for computer access, anyway!!

I have corresponded with Giles off-list, but what I'm about to say is from my side, and not private.  I am often astounded at the speech rates from synthesized speech that's comprehensible to many blind users of screen readers.  I've had a number of clients where I cannot understand a blessed thing that's being said at the rate they're comfortable listening at, and fully comprehending what they're hearing.

But when your primary sense mechanism for computer presented information is audition, you're bound to get much, much better with that.  It reminds me (age alert here) of when I used to see women in transcription pools sitting at their typewriters with their Dictaphone headsets on.   Many (most, probably) had typing rates at or above 100 words per minute, and would listen to the dictated content they were transcribing at just about that rate when doing so.  I could no sooner do either of those things, listening or typing at that rate, than fly to the moon under the power of my own arms!
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019