reducing the frequency of progress updates


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Hi all,
I have changed my NVDA progress indicator from beep to speak, but am
wondering if there is a way to refine the way progress is announced.
Is there some way I can only have as many indicators announced as NVDA
can read without getting behind? For example, I just sent a file to
someone using We Transfer. As the file was uploading, NVDA would say
1% transferring, 2% transferring, 3% transferring, and on and on. If I
hit the control key at that point, it would continue to speak, but say
8% transferring, 9% transferring, etc. Is there a way for NVDA to only
give as many progress indicator outputs as it can comfortably speak?
Thanks,
Bob


Luke Davis
 

Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Is there a way for NVDA to only give as many progress indicator outputs as it can comfortably speak?
NVDA doesn't know what it can comfortably speak, because it doesn't know how long the progress bar is.

I think one of two things could be done.

1. If we were to make progress bar announcements interruptible, NVDA could cancel the speech of the current percentage, and replace it with a new percentage when the bar is recalculated. However, in the situation you described, I think what you would end up with is a bunch of partially started speech fragments that never complete. It may never be able to finish speaking a full digit, just a bunch of stuttering gibberish until the bar either bogs down, or completes.

Is that an acceptable outcome? I suspect not.

2. Alternatively, NVDA could try to monitor the speed at which the bar is progressing, and assume that in the future, it will continue at that rate. It would then have to adapt its granularity to the speed of the bar. In other words, if it's taking fifteen minutes, then announcing single percentages would be fine. But if it's taking 15 seconds, only announcing 20%, 50%, and maybe 80%, would be sufficient.

That would require rather a bit of computational guesswork, and coverage for cases where the bar suddenly changed speed as they often do, but I can imagine how to pull it off. I couldn't find anyone asking for this on GitHub.

If one of those is what you want, I suggest you put in a feature request.

3. Well okay there is one more thing: one of NVDA's undocumented settings can help you here, if you don't mind ini file twiddling. Take a look at Brian Gaff's comment in the below.
Https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5031

Luke


Tyler Spivey
 

This would be accurate if it was a real progress bar. I suspect it's a live region.
The default percentage for speak is 10%, and it doesn't say transferring at the end.

However, I couldn't reproduce this. I went to WeTransfer and selected a file, but uploading gave me no automatic progress bar in Chrome.

On 6/27/2022 4:31 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Is there a way for NVDA to only give as many progress indicator outputs as it can comfortably speak?
NVDA doesn't know what it can comfortably speak, because it doesn't know how long the progress bar is.
I think one of two things could be done.
1. If we were to make progress bar announcements interruptible, NVDA could cancel the speech of the current percentage, and replace it with a new percentage when the bar is recalculated.  However, in the situation you described, I think what you would end up with is a bunch of partially started speech fragments that never complete. It may never be able to finish speaking a full digit, just a bunch of stuttering gibberish until the bar either bogs down, or completes.
Is that an acceptable outcome? I suspect not.
2. Alternatively, NVDA could try to monitor the speed at which the bar is progressing, and assume that in the future, it will continue at that rate. It would then have to adapt its granularity to the speed of the bar. In other words, if it's taking fifteen minutes, then announcing single percentages would be fine. But if it's taking 15 seconds, only announcing 20%, 50%, and maybe 80%, would be sufficient.
That would require rather a bit of computational guesswork, and coverage for cases where the bar suddenly changed speed as they often do, but I can imagine how to pull it off. I couldn't find anyone asking for this on GitHub.
If one of those is what you want, I suggest you put in a feature request.
3. Well okay there is one more thing: one of NVDA's undocumented settings can help you here, if you don't mind ini file twiddling. Take a look at Brian Gaff's comment in the below.
Https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5031
Luke


Bob Cavanaugh
 

I use Firefox, so that may be the difference. The other instance I
notice this in Firefox is when downloading a file. Now that Firefox
opens the downloads panel, it says downloading the filename, progress,
and time remaining. Currently, NVDA seems to update the progress every
tenth of a megabyte, but if I hit control, it jumps forward quite a
bit. It seems like in both instances, NVDA holds the progress
indicator in its speech buffer, and announces it as often as it can. I
wonder if there's a way we can get it to not do that, and only
announce progress as close to live as it can?

On 6/27/22, Tyler Spivey via groups.io <tspivey@...> wrote:
This would be accurate if it was a real progress bar. I suspect it's a
live region.
The default percentage for speak is 10%, and it doesn't say transferring
at the end.

However, I couldn't reproduce this. I went to WeTransfer and selected a
file, but uploading gave me no automatic progress bar in Chrome.


On 6/27/2022 4:31 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Is there a way for NVDA to only give as many progress indicator
outputs as it can comfortably speak?
NVDA doesn't know what it can comfortably speak, because it doesn't know
how long the progress bar is.

I think one of two things could be done.

1. If we were to make progress bar announcements interruptible, NVDA
could cancel the speech of the current percentage, and replace it with a
new percentage when the bar is recalculated.  However, in the situation
you described, I think what you would end up with is a bunch of
partially started speech fragments that never complete. It may never be
able to finish speaking a full digit, just a bunch of stuttering
gibberish until the bar either bogs down, or completes.

Is that an acceptable outcome? I suspect not.

2. Alternatively, NVDA could try to monitor the speed at which the bar
is progressing, and assume that in the future, it will continue at that
rate. It would then have to adapt its granularity to the speed of the
bar. In other words, if it's taking fifteen minutes, then announcing
single percentages would be fine. But if it's taking 15 seconds, only
announcing 20%, 50%, and maybe 80%, would be sufficient.

That would require rather a bit of computational guesswork, and coverage
for cases where the bar suddenly changed speed as they often do, but I
can imagine how to pull it off. I couldn't find anyone asking for this
on GitHub.

If one of those is what you want, I suggest you put in a feature request.

3. Well okay there is one more thing: one of NVDA's undocumented
settings can help you here, if you don't mind ini file twiddling. Take a
look at Brian Gaff's comment in the below.
Https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5031

Luke










Luke Davis
 

On Jun 27, Tyler Spivey via groups.io wrote:

This would be accurate if it was a real progress bar. I suspect it's a live region.
Ah, good catch. I clearly wasn't thinking.

Luke


Brian's Mail list account
 

This same issue exists in command prompt of course, where the process finishes almost instantly but the reading goes on for an age.
I've not found any way to control either problem.
I have one web page where there are progress bars for file and total upload so the bleeping can sound most odd as can the reading. I've yet to find a way to say only read this progress bar, but not this one etc, I guess in the command prompt you can output to a text file, but not every dos based program will respect that choice either!
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Cavanaugh" <cavbob1993@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 11:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] reducing the frequency of progress updates


Hi all,
I have changed my NVDA progress indicator from beep to speak, but am
wondering if there is a way to refine the way progress is announced.
Is there some way I can only have as many indicators announced as NVDA
can read without getting behind? For example, I just sent a file to
someone using We Transfer. As the file was uploading, NVDA would say
1% transferring, 2% transferring, 3% transferring, and on and on. If I
hit the control key at that point, it would continue to speak, but say
8% transferring, 9% transferring, etc. Is there a way for NVDA to only
give as many progress indicator outputs as it can comfortably speak?
Thanks,
Bob




 

Hi,

Actually, it is not NVDA that holds progress bar values - it says things according to what Firefox (or any app) tells it to say, more so if this is a live region (for live regions, provided that the application developer or website author is informing screen readers that live text should be announced).

Cheers,

Joseph


Jason Bratcher
 

Not that I should be saying this,
but I thought "live regions" could either be "aggressive" or "assertive".

Jason Bratcher


Gene
 

There are, I believe, three levels that live regions can be set to by those who place them somewhere such as on a web page.  One of the settings, as I recall, interrupts other speech when it is in progress and I believe the other two don't, though I don't know details about the other settings.

Gene

On 6/30/2022 3:03 PM, Jason Bratcher wrote:
Not that I should be saying this,
but I thought "live regions" could either be "aggressive" or "assertive".

Jason Bratcher