Running NVDA on a MacBook with BootCamp or similar?


Luke Robinett
 

Hi,

I consulted Google before sending this but I only came across this situation for NVDA testing purposes so I don’t want to presume that information also applies to the end user experience. I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising considering we’ll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time. Sounds like we’ll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding. Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned that the Mac doesn’t have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely appreciated. I’ve already resigned from my current company and will be starting the new job in two weeks so I’m kind of freaking out right now, Ha.

 

Thank you,

Luke

 


 

I can't speak to NVDA specifically, but I had client who was  Mac user who was starting back to grad school and needed PC based access.  We used Jaws and Bootcamp without Issue.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Christopher Kchao
 

I use Windows on an Intel-based Mac every day with no problem. External keyboard is a good idea (a Windows compatible one will be just fine). I know that on the MacBook keyboard itself, some of NVDA's laptop layout commands didn't always reliably work with using capslock as the NVDA modifier. The old solution before getting an external keyboard was to use SharpKeys to remap either the right cmd or option key to insert. Updates seemed to break that assignment and you'd need to go in and remap, but this was infrequent.

Best,
CK


Sky Mundell
 

Hello. If your employer has shipped you the new mac, you won’t be able to run NVDA on the new macs with the m1 chip as you can’t run windows on the new mac. However, the mac uses Voiceover as its built in screen reader, and the concepts between mac and windows are the same. That is, the mac has a desktop, but the differences is that with applications on the mac, you use the app store to download mac apps and you can of course download mac apps from the internet, but the thing is you don’t have a start menu but you have a menu bar, and your applications go in a folder called applications and like on windows you can put short cuts on the desktop. If you want to learn how to use the mac with speech, here is a user guide that’ll show you how to use the screen reader on the mac.

Voiceover User Guide for Mac - Apple Support

Also, applications don’t install on the mac, meaning, you just run the application from the desktop or applications folder and away you go. Also, the apple macs and iPhones are designed to work together, and the thing is that there is no freezing of programs on the mac, and if applications on the mac happens to enter an unresponsive state, Voice Over will not crash. Rather, it’ll say, “busy.”

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of lukelistservs@...
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 3:29 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Running NVDA on a MacBook with BootCamp or similar?

 

Hi,

I consulted Google before sending this but I only came across this situation for NVDA testing purposes so I don’t want to presume that information also applies to the end user experience. I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising considering we’ll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time. Sounds like we’ll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding. Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned that the Mac doesn’t have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely appreciated. I’ve already resigned from my current company and will be starting the new job in two weeks so I’m kind of freaking out right now, Ha.

 

Thank you,

Luke

 


 

Hmph interesting.

Obviously your work spares no expence, macs are powerhhouses.

However, maybe ask them nicely if you can please use a standard pc instead unless of course they want to develop on macs.

If not ask them to buy vmware workstation and run that or the playeror fusion or something but really you probably will want a windows pc.



On 9/07/2021 10:29 am, lukelistservs@... wrote:

Hi,

I consulted Google before sending this but I only came across this situation for NVDA testing purposes so I don’t want to presume that information also applies to the end user experience. I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising considering we’ll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time. Sounds like we’ll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding. Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned that the Mac doesn’t have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely appreciated. I’ve already resigned from my current company and will be starting the new job in two weeks so I’m kind of freaking out right now, Ha.

 

Thank you,

Luke

 


Lukasz Golonka
 

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz


Guy Schlosser
 

Hey Luke, as long as your Mac is an Intel-based Mac, you will have no problem running NVDA with windows 10 on BootCamp. Although my primary screenreader of choice is jaws, I am familiar with NVDA, and do follow this list. I think you’ll find that most max running on Boot Camp run better than most Windows PC‘s. your NVDA modifier can be said to caps, and you can also use an external keyboard if you need to. If you have any questions, or need a little assistance, you are more than welcome to mail me off list.

Guy

On Jul 9, 2021, at 12:31 AM, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:



Hmph interesting.

Obviously your work spares no expence, macs are powerhhouses.

However, maybe ask them nicely if you can please use a standard pc instead unless of course they want to develop on macs.

If not ask them to buy vmware workstation and run that or the playeror fusion or something but really you probably will want a windows pc.



On 9/07/2021 10:29 am, lukelistservs@... wrote:

Hi,

I consulted Google before sending this but I only came across this situation for NVDA testing purposes so I don’t want to presume that information also applies to the end user experience. I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising considering we’ll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time. Sounds like we’ll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding. Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned that the Mac doesn’t have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely appreciated. I’ve already resigned from my current company and will be starting the new job in two weeks so I’m kind of freaking out right now, Ha.

 

Thank you,

Luke

 


tim
 

Try vs code. Microsoft has ben working on that for a while.

On 7/9/2021 12:02 PM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.


matthew dyer
 

Loke,  If the macbook Is an intel, you should be fine, but the Mblea than you are out of luck as bootcamp is not on the M 1 and it not supported.

 

Matthew

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of lukelistservs@...
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 6:29 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Running NVDA on a MacBook with BootCamp or similar?

 

Hi,

I consulted Google before sending this but I only came across this situation for NVDA testing purposes so I don’t want to presume that information also applies to the end user experience. I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising considering we’ll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time. Sounds like we’ll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding. Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned that the Mac doesn’t have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely appreciated. I’ve already resigned from my current company and will be starting the new job in two weeks so I’m kind of freaking out right now, Ha.

 

Thank you,

Luke

 


Luke Robinett
 

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:


On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz






Jonathan COHN
 

hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn

On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:


On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz









simon wheatcroft
 

Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.

On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz












 

Also from redmondpie, battery life on the m1 is more officient than standard so yeah.

On 10/07/2021 6:31 pm, simon wheatcroft wrote:
Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz











tim
 

Then your the only one running it. Because no one on the mac lists can get it working because NVDA don't work on arm chips or arm versions of windows. Not even the NVDA programmers could get it working.

On 7/10/2021 2:31 AM, simon wheatcroft wrote:
Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz











simon wheatcroft
 

Perhaps they would like to reach out to me then. As i have it running on a MBA with an M1 and a Mac mini with an M1.

On 10 Jul 2021, at 17:54, tim <z2004a1@gmail.com> wrote:

Then your the only one running it. Because no one on the mac lists can get it working because NVDA don't work on arm chips or arm versions of windows. Not even the NVDA programmers could get it working.



On 7/10/2021 2:31 AM, simon wheatcroft wrote:
Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz














Jonathan COHN
 

Excuse me!!! But if you want to contribute why don't you contribute and not just be snarky. If you are able to get something done that others say is impossible, give a link to how it is done or describe it. Your reply is totally useless as is. AND THIS TOPIC is pretty much not about NVDA att so should be discontinued.

On Jul 10, 2021, at 15:18, simon wheatcroft <andadaptdev@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps they would like to reach out to me then. As i have it running on a MBA with an M1 and a Mac mini with an M1.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 17:54, tim <z2004a1@gmail.com> wrote:

Then your the only one running it. Because no one on the mac lists can get it working because NVDA don't work on arm chips or arm versions of windows. Not even the NVDA programmers could get it working.



On 7/10/2021 2:31 AM, simon wheatcroft wrote:
Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz

















simon wheatcroft
 

HI Jonathon,

Apologies if you read it as snarky. I was suggesting they reach out to me o group as i did not see it as on topic. Aas it is certainly not a setup that i would assume is supported or indeed needs time dedicated to it right now.

So as in my previous post, if people are interested i would be happy to go off group and assist anyone getting it up and running.

On 10 Jul 2021, at 20:24, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:

Excuse me!!! But if you want to contribute why don't you contribute and not just be snarky. If you are able to get something done that others say is impossible, give a link to how it is done or describe it. Your reply is totally useless as is. AND THIS TOPIC is pretty much not about NVDA att so should be discontinued.


On Jul 10, 2021, at 15:18, simon wheatcroft <andadaptdev@gmail.com> wrote:

Perhaps they would like to reach out to me then. As i have it running on a MBA with an M1 and a Mac mini with an M1.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 17:54, tim <z2004a1@gmail.com> wrote:
Then your the only one running it. Because no one on the mac lists can get it working because NVDA don't work on arm chips or arm versions of windows. Not even the NVDA programmers could get it working.



On 7/10/2021 2:31 AM, simon wheatcroft wrote:
Hi,

Just to jump in on the M1 comment. I have a new MacBook Air with the M1, i run the insiders build of windows 10 and use NVDA through that.

Works surprisingly well, i do have the base MacBook Air with 8Gb of RAM and the performance is surprising. So if you have more RAM to dedicate to the VM than i do the performance will be even better.

I do however, find the current performance acceptable.
On 10 Jul 2021, at 00:12, Jonathan COHN via groups.io <jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
hello the latest mac book pro 13 inch has the M1 chip which you probably do not want based on your requirements. Every computer in my house is a macintosh and I would be glad to help you offlist in getting started with ,the Mac.
Jonathan Cohn
On Jul 9, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Luke Robinett <lukelistservs@gmail.com> wrote:

Just wanted to thank all of you for the responses. It has calmed my nerves greatly! From what I understand, this is the latest generation of MacBook Pro so I’m imagining it has the necessary hardware to run windows. If anything, maybe I’m in for a real treat and I’ll become a McIntosh fanboy after this experience. LOL. Thanks again guys

On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Lukasz Golonka via groups.io <lukasz.golonka=mailbox.org@groups.io> wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 15:29:00 -0700
lukelistservs@gmail.com wrote:

I accepted a new developer job and found out today my new employer is
shipping me a MacBook Pro as my work computer. This was surprising
considering we'll be developing in C#.Net in Visual Studio, an IDE for
which I do not believe there is even a Mac version at this time.

Visual Studio for Mac exists for some time now - see here
https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/mac/#vs_mac_table
I haven't used it myself but from various lists I gather it is more or
less accessible with VoiceOver

Sounds like we'll be using BootCamp or something similar. I have
zero experience with Macs and am terrified this is going to be a huge
and unexpected learning curve that will slow down my onboarding.

If you've never used Mac with VO before and it'll turn out you're indeed
required to use VS under Mac then it certainly would.

Anyway, is it possible to use NVDA in a Windows mode of Mac and does it
work just like on a real PC? One of those articles I skimmed mentioned
that the Mac doesn't have an Insert key, the default NVDA key and that
there might be some other keyboard discrepancies, but I would plan on
just connecting an external Windows-style keyboard anyway, provided that
will work. Any reassurance, tips or guidance on this would be hugely
appreciated.

I've been using Windows via \Bootcamp on my Mac for about a year without
much troubles with NVDA it was however an older model and more
importantly a desktop one.
If your Macbook is going to be an one of the recently released with an
M1 processor then you're out of luck since Windows cannot be made to run
on it natively for the time being and while virtualizing it appears to
be possible there is apparently a big lag with assistive technologies
when using it that way.
Also an external keyboard is certainly something which should be
considered since newest Mac models don't have a physical row of function
keys and while VoiceOver allows to emulate them it is impossible to do
under windows.

--
Regards
Lukasz





















V Stuart Foote
 

Folks,

So for a non-Intel x86 based M1 ARM instruction set Apple desktop or laptop, this currently will require Parallels and a not quite legal copy of the ARM 64 flavor of Windows 10 preview to run as a guest OS.

There will be no "Bootcamp" mode to support ARM 64 Windows running natively--so it has to be a hosted virtual machine.

For now options to Paralles do not exist, VM Ware's Fusion is not going to support the ARM 64 flavor of Windows -- until Microsoft clarifies the licensing situation. 

But, for a hosted ARM 64 flavor of Windows there is no reason to expect that NVDA would not function.

But Key mappings will be a challenge -- the mix of native macOS shortcuts & accelerators, nsAccessibility, and those shortcuts/accellerator allocated to the guest os, and finally any NVDA specific mappings.

Quite a bit to sort through. Your milage may vary (YMMV)  with your patience, good luck!

Stuart


simon wheatcroft
 

Without going to far off topic…

The key mappings is the issue. You have to write your own keyboard layout and then compile it for the architecture. I have it for the MacBook Air keyboard layout. Happy to share but as in previous post trying not to go to far off topic. I just wanted to point out that it does work.




On 10 Jul 2021, at 20:49, V Stuart Foote <vstuart.foote@...> wrote:

Folks,

So for a non-Intel x86 based M1 ARM instruction set Apple desktop or laptop, this currently will require Parallels and a not quite legal copy of the ARM 64 flavor of Windows 10 preview to run as a guest OS.

There will be no "Bootcamp" mode to support ARM 64 Windows running natively--so it has to be a hosted virtual machine.

For now options to Paralles do not exist, VM Ware's Fusion is not going to support the ARM 64 flavor of Windows -- until Microsoft clarifies the licensing situation. 

But, for a hosted ARM 64 flavor of Windows there is no reason to expect that NVDA would not function.

But Key mappings will be a challenge -- the mix of native macOS shortcuts & accelerators, nsAccessibility, and those shortcuts/accellerator allocated to the guest os, and finally any NVDA specific mappings.

Quite a bit to sort through. Your milage may vary (YMMV)  with your patience, good luck!

Stuart


 

On Sat, Jul 10, 2021 at 03:24 PM, Jonathan COHN wrote:
Your reply is totally useless as is. AND THIS TOPIC is pretty much not about NVDA att so should be discontinued.
-
Moderator's Note:  No, my dear sir, but yours is, and it's belligerent as well, and I know which I find more offensive:  open belligerence.

Things have now been explained, but even before they were it's clear that someone has to learn how to deal with snark.  Snark as a way of expressing incredulity is common and appropriate at times.

I have no problem with heated disagreements on merit, and I also think that asking whether NVDA can run under Bootcamp is absolutely "about NVDA."  So this topic isn't about to be locked, at least not yet.

There's almost certain to be someone at some point in the future who wonders about how/whether NVDA can be run under Bootcamp on a Mac and this topic gives useful information in that regard.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel