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separate cursor for browse and focus modes?

Gene #101218 That isn't what he is asking. He even asks in another message why he isn't placed at the top of the page. He says this in his first message as well and he also discusses focus mode not aligning with browse mode when he switches to focus mode. Gene toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 11/26/2022 5:25 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote: I got the impression he in fact was querying about the way the focus mode is triggered on the first edit or interactive element that can be changed. This behaviour can of course be changed, but only globally not for each web site. Brian
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Steve Nutt #101613 Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob
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Steve Nutt #101615 Hi Brian, Don’t even get me started on this. I hate trying to communicate with sighted people about websites, when the virtual cursor is often somewhere, sometimes off the visual screen that the sighted person can see. My support worker and I curse virtual cursors regularly in any screen reader. All the best Steve toggle quoted message Show quoted text From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel Sent: 25 November 2022 21:51 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 04:31 PM, Gene wrote: Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. - And as a sighted instructor, this is one of the things that made (and continues to make) me most insane. It's one of the reasons that Focus Highlight in NVDA is a lifesaver for those of us who can see, because it forces the virtual cursor position and the on-screen positions to remain in sync. For years it was insanity making to even try to determine where the user actually was in a webpage, etc., when there was no effort to keep what's on screen and what's being accessed in sync with each other. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit "Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people. ~ Tom Masson
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Gene #101617 Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is. Gene toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob .
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Brian Vogel #101624 On Wed, Dec 14, 2022 at 11:15 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: My support worker and I curse virtual cursors regularly in any screen reader. - And I'll also add that the way these things get loaded is very often at great variance with how a sighted person would traverse a given webpage based upon what they see. The ordering of thing is perversely different. Mind you, I am well aware that choices have to be made as to how one orders things when building the virtual buffer for a webpage, and that how this is done from a "processing the HTML" perspective may indeed be very different than how a visual layout produced by same is designed to lead a sighted user. But it's still fraught with many, "How/Why in the hell did it jump from point A to point M, rather than point B or C?," from the sighted user's perspective based upon the visual layout of the page. This is another reason why Focus Highlight is such an essential tool when a mixed blind and sighted working group is involved. It prevents so much confusion. Personally, this is a feature I think should be on by default in all screen readers. I've never seen it slow anything down that I could detect, and almost invariably (given population demographics) blind individuals are going to have sighted individuals "looking over their shoulders" just like happens with other sighted users. But when everyone is using vision, everyone is literally "on the same page." That doesn't happen under screen readers unless Focus Highlight or its equivalent is on. And a great many screen reader users do not know of the existence of such a feature nor how to activate/deactivate it. And if there exists 0.001% of the sighted population that knows about screen readers, let alone how to turn features on/off, you'd be lucky. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit "Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people. ~ Tom Masson
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Steve Nutt #101692 It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on. All the best Steve toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is. Gene On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_ 0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob .
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Gene #101693 No. I'm not talking about sighted users being shown where you are working. I'm saying that browse mode doesn't work directly with the web page and it is not aligned on some web pages so when you switch to the underlying page by switching to focus mode, you may not be where you expect to be. I tried this with highlight cursor, I believe that is the name on, and the results were the same. JAWS has a command to align the two representations of the page. I don't recall what it is but there are times you need to use that command in JAWS to have you be at the same place. That's the same problem I'm discussing. Gene toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 12/16/2022 6:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is. Gene On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL_ 0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob .
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Steve Nutt #101696 It's the same command as routing the JAWS cursor, Insert Plus. All the best Steve toggle quoted message Show quoted text -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 16 December 2022 13:04 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? No. I'm not talking about sighted users being shown where you are working. I'm saying that browse mode doesn't work directly with the web page and it is not aligned on some web pages so when you switch to the underlying page by switching to focus mode, you may not be where you expect to be. I tried this with highlight cursor, I believe that is the name on, and the results were the same. JAWS has a command to align the two representations of the page. I don't recall what it is but there are times you need to use that command in JAWS to have you be at the same place. That's the same problem I'm discussing. Gene On 12/16/2022 6:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is. Gene On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL _ 0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob .
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Gene #101699 If you are talking about NVDA insert NVDA plus, that command does nothing. There is no command that routes the focus mode position to the browse mode cursor, as far as I know. If someone knows of such a command, that would be useful to know. The command in JAWS I'm speaking of moves your position in the underlying page to the position of the virtual PC cursor. I haven't used JAWS to any extent for years and I don't remember the name of the command. Gene toggle quoted message Show quoted text On 12/16/2022 8:08 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: It's the same command as routing the JAWS cursor, Insert Plus. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 16 December 2022 13:04 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? No. I'm not talking about sighted users being shown where you are working. I'm saying that browse mode doesn't work directly with the web page and it is not aligned on some web pages so when you switch to the underlying page by switching to focus mode, you may not be where you expect to be. I tried this with highlight cursor, I believe that is the name on, and the results were the same. JAWS has a command to align the two representations of the page. I don't recall what it is but there are times you need to use that command in JAWS to have you be at the same place. That's the same problem I'm discussing. Gene On 12/16/2022 6:59 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: It's because virtual cursors don't by default, scroll the screen, unless you have some kind of focus highlight turned on. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 14 December 2022 16:18 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Pressing control home in browse mode moves the virtual cursor. The question is why, when in focus mode, the position doesn't necessarily line up with where the virtual cursor is. Gene On 12/14/2022 10:14 AM, Steve Nutt wrote: Surely, it's simple enough to press Control Home when you're in the Email to get to the top? This should take your virtual cursor to the top of anything. All the best Steve -----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: 25 November 2022 21:31 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] separate cursor for browse and focus modes? Because on some pages, the virtual cursor in Browse mode doesn't line up with the actual page. You will see this on some other pages as well if you switch back and forth. That's why I said, in my instructions to move to the top of the page and tab once while in browse mode. I don't know technically why, but that aligns where you are in browse mode with where you are on the underlying page so my instructions will work consistently. Gene On 11/25/2022 3:23 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi Gene, I've only had to use object navigation a couple times, but they have been on websites that aren't designed properly. In the case of the Gmail site though, that is not one of them. The question still is, why am I not at the top of the page when I activate focus mode when I've made sure of it in Browse mode? On 11/25/22, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote: You shouldn't have to use object navigation to any extent on the Internet. If you discuss the problems you have working with the site, those who use it regularly may discuss them and help you use it better. The link to the tutorial, which you may find helpful in various situations is: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HZ7oqhtmwWXGVvAivYL _ 0 pi9AcHc3WjZ Since I don't know how you use your computer, I don't know if learning object navigation will help you to a meaningful extent but by listening to a little or some of it, you may be able to determine that. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:43 PM, Abbie Taylor wrote: Gene, I'm definitely interested in that tutorial on object navigation in focus mode. I sometimes use the Gmail site when Thunderbird isn't responding, and it might help me use that site more efficiently without constantly switching between focus and browse modes. On 11/25/2022 1:26 PM, Gene wrote: To answer your first question, there is no separate cursor. The whole reason for Browse Mode is that web pages don't have cursors. The cursor you work with in browse mode isn't on the web page. NVDA creates and uses it. You can use object navigation while in focus mode but discussing that is a whole different subject and you would need to know how to use object navigation, if you don't. I created a tutorial on using object navigation. I can find a link to it and send it to you if you wish. Gene On 11/25/2022 2:07 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote: Hi all, Is there a separate cursor for browse and focus modes? When I check my email sometimes, more often with my school email than my personal one, I am not placed at the top of the page in the GMail interface, but rather somewhere down the page, where focus mode is automatically activated. I don't often pay attention to where I am, but I think that was something brought up on this list not too long ago. Where I am placed doesn't really matter, but since focus mode is automatically activated, I then press escape to return to browse mode and go to the top of the page, where I know I must then activate focus mode in order to get to the button that loads basic HTML. The problem is, when I then activate focus mode, I am not at the top of the page anymore as expected, but apparently back where I was put when I first logged in. So, what's happening here? Do browse and focus modes have a separate cursor? Thanks, Bob .
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