[Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA


David Russell
 

Hi NVDA Group,

I receive the digest version, but would hope to see your answer sooner
than Friday, so you may email me direct. The email address is in my
signature.

I am completing an online application for an online automated brokerage firm.
Most questions require mouse clicks to initiate response.
Other than the enter key, which does not work with this application,
what key or key combination will likely open the fields so I can make
the most appropriate choice?

Thanks for your assist; please email off group.
--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com


 

I'm not going to email off group because the whole purpose of these groups is information sharing.  If you are in a rush, then temporarily change your subscription to single messages then back again to digest after "the immediate need for promptness" is done:

To receive each group message individually: nvda+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digests:  nvda+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages:  nvda+summary@nvda.groups.io
-
It is impossible to answer whether NVDA Mouse Emulation will or will not work.  It must be tried.  And the commands for working with the mouse, like so many others, are available in the NVDA Commands Quick Reference that you, or any other user, can pull up any time NVDA is running with NVDA+N,H,Q.  The section entitled, 

Navigating with the Mouse

, contains the table of all mouse emulation commands.

I still maintain that it is a much surer bet to use the actual mouse, prepared to prevent pointer movement, with its real left and right click buttons, after having issued the command to Move mouse to current navigator object to gain "mouse focus" on it.  Message 
 https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/82242  discusses what a "prepared mouse" (or mouse pad) actually is.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

Also, if people mail off group, they have no idea how many other people responded or what they say. I am less likely to mail off group because I don't want to go through the trouble of just duplicating what five other people may have told you.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2021 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

I'm not going to email off group because the whole purpose of these groups is information sharing. If you are in a rush, then temporarily change your subscription to single messages then back again to digest after "the immediate need for promptness" is done:


To receive each group message individually: nvda+single@nvda.groups.io

This is the default delivery unless you send a message to one of the addresses that follows.

To receive group messages in an HTML formatted digests: nvda+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io

To receive a daily summary instead of individual messages: nvda+summary@nvda.groups.io
-
It is impossible to answer whether NVDA Mouse Emulation will or will not work. It must be tried. And the commands for working with the mouse, like so many others, are available in the NVDA Commands Quick Reference that you, or any other user, can pull up any time NVDA is running with NVDA+N,H,Q. The section entitled,

Navigating with the Mouse

, contains the table of all mouse emulation commands.

I still maintain that it is a much surer bet to use the actual mouse, prepared to prevent pointer movement, with its real left and right click buttons, after having issued the command to Move mouse to current navigator object to gain "mouse focus" on it. Message https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/82242 discusses what a "prepared mouse" (or mouse pad) actually is.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

And, for the record, I did send the entire text of my on-group reply to Mr. Russell privately.  It is now entirely up to him whether this is important enough to temporarily "turn on the individual message faucet."

I strongly discourage any group member from providing off-group support for something like this, which really is about how to use the NVDA mouse features.  It absolutely defeats one of the primary purposes of this group and others like it:  information sharing.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA,

I did consult the NVDA quick reference guide and wonder what is meant by
commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?

If that means the minus or dash key, or the forward slash key, it
would have been better to use those descriptives since most keyboards
do not come with mathematical keys according to what I have read.

Off record, I did receive one response to my query but it was
unrelated to the topic.
I will check the message summary at the website, and await arrival of
my NVDA summary that arrives in about 14 hours time.

I am sorry to have caused consternation.

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@gmail.com
PS27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen
thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.


 

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 05:47 PM, David Russell wrote:
wonder what is meant by commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?
-
Exactly what they say.  There are conventions for referring to specific keys on and surrounding the Number Pad as there are on the regular keyboard, and the 4 primary operations are:

Multiply -  which is always the star/asterisk if you are looking at the character
Divide   -  which is always the slash
Plus      -   self explanatory
Minus   -   also pretty much self explanatory, but one could also say it's the dash/hyphen

It is far more conventional to refer to number pad keys by their actual mathematical function, not as though they were alternative ways to enter those four text characters, but you can, of course, use them that way, as they can serve that purpose whether or not number lock is on.

The NVDA documentation follows the most common terminology for making reference to those key, by mathematical sign/function.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

That may be but I think the other way to refer to the keys should be given, perhaps in parenthesis. So numpad divide might be listed as numpad divide (slash). I generally see these keys referred to as slash and star, as I recall in discussions on various blind user lists I'm on.

gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2021 5:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 05:47 PM, David Russell wrote:
wonder what is meant by commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?-
Exactly what they say. There are conventions for referring to specific keys on and surrounding the Number Pad as there are on the regular keyboard, and the 4 primary operations are:

Multiply - which is always the star/asterisk if you are looking at the character
Divide - which is always the slash
Plus - self explanatory
Minus - also pretty much self explanatory, but one could also say it's the dash/hyphen

It is far more conventional to refer to number pad keys by their actual mathematical function, not as though they were alternative ways to enter those four text characters, but you can, of course, use them that way, as they can serve that purpose whether or not number lock is on.

The NVDA documentation follows the most common terminology for making reference to those key, by mathematical sign/function.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


 

Gene,

If someone wishes to write it this way, have at it.  But we're back to one of those things on which we're likely to never agree.  I believe that very common conventions, across many forms of documentation, for referring to number pad keys need to be known by "the average computer user."  It is no help to make documentation longer, and more complicated, assuming that this is not something commonly known, in my opinion.

Asterisk as the multiply operator and slash as the divide operator predate the PC, and have been in use in that way on many adding machines for decades now, particularly after the PC appeared.

Numpad multiply and numpad divide need to be understood under those terms, and I'd rather the rare person who doesn't already know them do what Mr. Russell did and ask.  There's nothing wrong with having a very occasional gap in common knowledge and asking to fill it in.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Luke Davis
 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, David Russell wrote:

I did consult the NVDA quick reference guide and wonder what is meant by
commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?
Numpad divide, or numpad forward slash, is the key above numpad 8.
Numpad multiply, or numpad asterisk, is the key above numpad 9.

Do not forget, that you can always turn on NVDA's key describer mode, or keyboard help, by pressing NVDA+1. That will tell you what all of the numpad keys are, with numlock both on and off.
With numlock on, you can also type any of them into notepad or the like, to learn what symbol is actually produced.

The numpad, logically, contains the digits, the decimal point, an extra enter key, and the four standard operators: add (+), subtract (-), multiply (*), and divide (/).
Illogically, it does not contain the equals sign, but presumably calculating programs of the day when the 101 key PC keyboard was standardized, included an enter-as-equals feature.
The designers of the Mac keyboard managed to overcome this oddity, and include an equals sign however, at the cost of shrinking one of the double sized keys.

Luke


Luke Davis
 

David, you have talked a few times now, on at least two lists, about this brokerage. Can you say which site it is?

You're getting to the point that help has to be specific. Actually, you were at that point from the beginning, with the license picture question, but we tried our best to give you general advice for your specific situation--an iffy to losing proposition at all times.

Try control+enter, or shift+enter. Also try space.

Further, you might run the COM registration fixing tool in NVDA's tools menu, which sometimes helps to make certain unusual web controls become accessible, if the reason for their inaccessibility is related to COM registrations being lost.
I had this exact problem during a Mercury bank application last year, and this was the solution that finally did the trick for me.

Luke

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, David Russell wrote:

I am completing an online application for an online automated brokerage firm.
Most questions require mouse clicks to initiate response.
Other than the enter key, which does not work with this application,
what key or key combination will likely open the fields so I can make
the most appropriate choice?


David Russell
 

Hi NVDA,

I share the following link with you in the hope it may be helpful
alongside the NVDA command key list. I will try these at the brokerage
site, webull.com.
This site caters mostly to US residents.

How to Move the Mouse Cursor with the Keyboard in Windows
https://www.computerhope.com › ... › Keyboard Help
About this Result
Using keyboard shortcut — How to enable/disable Mouse Keys. Using
keyboard shortcut; In Windows 10; In Windows 8; In Windows 7, Vista,
or XP.

Thank you for your time and input: Luke, Brian, Gene.


David Russell


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi David,

The numpad divide key is the / on the number pad specifically, and the numpad multiply is the * which is next to it.  Having a number pad (a block of keys with numbers, and symbols setup very similar to a conventional desktop calculator) is usual on desktop keyboards.  With laptop keyboards some do have a number pad (especially those with larger screens) and some don't, which is why NVDA has a desktop keyboard layout and a laptop keyboard layout listed for some commands (some are the same for both).  In the case of the mouse keys, there is a different set for desktop layout and laptop layout: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#NavigatingWithTheMouse

If you are interesting in using the keyboard to move the mouse, there is also a golden cursor add-on to enhance this functionality: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/goldenCursor.en.html  Also, I would say for the majority of tasks, there should ideally be a better keyboard way of accomplishing it than manipulating the mouse like this - although of course knowing these commands is definitely useful at times as well.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 7:47 AM David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...> wrote:
Hello NVDA,

I did consult the NVDA quick reference guide and wonder what is meant by
commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?

If that means the minus or dash key, or the forward slash key, it
would have been better to use those descriptives since most keyboards
do not come with mathematical keys according to what I have read.

Off record, I did receive one response to my query but it was
unrelated to the topic.
I will check the message summary at the website, and await arrival of
my NVDA summary that arrives in about 14 hours time.

I am sorry to have caused consternation.

--
David C. Russell, Author
david.sonofhashem@...
PS27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen
thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Quentin Christensen
 

I'd also note that the other thing you can do if you do receive the group via digest and want to check on responses to a particular topic, is you can go to the group page and read it there at any time: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Each message also has a "View reply online" link, in the case of the message I'm replying to on this thread:

View/Reply Online (#83077): https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/83077

And as others have said - this sounds like a very particular scenario so if it is something which is publicly accessible, if you could share the link, that would really help others to help you.  I did reply to the other post you sent on a similar topic, so I'm not sure whether that will help you or not.

Kind regards

Quentin


On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 9:49 AM Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:
David, you have talked a few times now, on at least two lists, about this
brokerage. Can you say which site it is?

You're getting to the point that help has to be specific.  Actually, you were at
that point from the beginning, with the license picture question, but we tried
our best to give you general advice for your specific situation--an iffy to
losing proposition at all times.

Try control+enter, or shift+enter. Also try space.

Further, you might run the COM registration fixing tool in NVDA's tools menu,
which sometimes helps to make certain unusual web controls become accessible, if
the reason for their inaccessibility is related to COM registrations being lost.
I had this exact problem during a Mercury bank application last year, and this
was the solution that finally did the trick for me.

Luke

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, David Russell wrote:

> I am completing an online application for an online automated brokerage firm.
> Most questions require mouse clicks to initiate response.
> Other than the enter key, which does not work with this application,
> what key or key combination will likely open the fields so I can make
> the most appropriate choice?







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Pranav Lal
 

David,

Have you tried object navigation with the brokerage?

Pranav


Jackie
 

NVDA+enter key seems to work quite well, David.

On 4/8/21, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi NVDA,

I share the following link with you in the hope it may be helpful
alongside the NVDA command key list. I will try these at the brokerage
site, webull.com.
This site caters mostly to US residents.

How to Move the Mouse Cursor with the Keyboard in Windows
https://www.computerhope.com › ... › Keyboard Help
About this Result
Using keyboard shortcut — How to enable/disable Mouse Keys. Using
keyboard shortcut; In Windows 10; In Windows 8; In Windows 7, Vista,
or XP.

Thank you for your time and input: Luke, Brian, Gene.


David Russell





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Luke Davis
 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, Jackie wrote:

NVDA+enter key seems to work quite well, David.
Really? Is that documented somewhere? Now, NVDA+numpad enter, I can understand, but the regular one?
Where does that work that just enter might not?

I don't doubt you, I've just never heard of it, and keyboard help has nothing on it.

Luke


Jackie
 

Luke, it's the "activate navigator object" key. Using the laptop
layout, it's NVDA+enter.

On 4/8/21, Luke Davis <luke@newanswertech.com> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, Jackie wrote:

NVDA+enter key seems to work quite well, David.
Really? Is that documented somewhere? Now, NVDA+numpad enter, I can
understand,
but the regular one?
Where does that work that just enter might not?

I don't doubt you, I've just never heard of it, and keyboard help has
nothing on
it.

Luke





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Luke Davis
 

Ah. I so rarely use that layout that I sometimes forget its eccentricities.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, Jackie wrote:

Luke, it's the "activate navigator object" key. Using the laptop
layout, it's NVDA+enter.


Quentin Christensen
 

Just for completeness, here is the relevant User Guide section: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#ObjectNavigation

The keystroke to activate current navigator object is NVDA+numpad enter in desktop keyboard layout and NVDA+enter in laptop layout.

Mostly designed for use with object navigation (to get you where regular navigation keys like the arrows and tab can't get to), I must confess I haven't looked at the technicalities of exactly how the behaviour differs, but great that it works as a solution here :)

Quentin.

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 6:12 PM Luke Davis <luke@...> wrote:
Ah. I so rarely use that layout that I sometimes forget its eccentricities.

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021, Jackie wrote:

> Luke, it's the "activate navigator object" key. Using the laptop
> layout, it's NVDA+enter.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Luke Davis
 

On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Mostly designed for use with object navigation (to get you where regular navigation keys like the arrows and tab can't get to), I must confess I haven't
looked at the technicalities of exactly how the behaviour differs, but great that it works as a solution here :)
Well, we won't know that until the OP tries it.

I still want him to test COM reg fix, and shift+enter, space, etc. as well.

Luke