[Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA


Jonathan COHN
 

This site is usingaccessiBe overlay to modify their page. Jonathan Mosen did a entire show just about this overlay. I have a few opinions on this, but will be refraining and speaking them here.

On Apr 10, 2021, at 13:10, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello NVDA,

For the sake of update or summary, thanks everyone for your input into
this topic.
I am curious to know a little more about the option to use what is
called 'screen reader mode.'
Is this a way for websites to make their offerings or content more
accessible to those using screen readers?

Can a website detect when someone is visiting their website and
cookies gather what browser they are using and specialized
peripherals?
On Thursday, it appeared I was just one of the fray interested in
applying to webull.com. On Friday, the screen reader mode option was
read to me.

I gather from the information in the NVDA manual, and that found at
other websites like computer hope.com, that there are different ways
to use the mouse together with NVDA. Is that a correct assumption?

Like Sarah, I too learn what I have to do in order to accomplish what
I do on the computer or any mobile device. Hence, my skills, too, are
perhaps limited or defined.

I will check back when the daily summary appears in my inbox on Sunday
to read what replies may appear. Again, much thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author





Gene
 

The user should know something about the virtual pc cursor or browse mode, as NVDA calls it. If they don't, they won't know why you switch browse mode off for certain reasons and then on again. They won't know that the web page, as they experience it may not be laid out the same way as a sighted person sees it and won't be able to translate what a sighted person tells them to where something might be on the page. They won't understand that at times, if you turhn off browse mode, you may see a control that, for some reason, you won't if it is on and even if they know that, they won't understand why. They should know that quick navigation commands are used in browse mode and that they are not a part of a sighted person browsing the web.

An exhaustive technical knowledge of browse mode isn't necessary. You do need to know that you are using a cursor that doesn't exist on the web page and a sighted person doesn't see one. You should know the things I stated above if you are a serious Internet user.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:28 PM, tim wrote:
And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon feed.-
And the issue of spoon-feeding aside, as I don't think that's exactly what's being asked for here, there is, as I have asserted earlier, every reason for software developers for Windows, in the year 2021, to believe that they do not and should not have to discuss certain Windows basics as part of their training manuals and certain terminology, either.

People can, and will, occasionally have gaps in their knowledge. I have gaps in my knowledge. I had to get a lot of instruction on the concept of the virtual cursor when I first started working with screen readers. But I don't expect that the documentation on how to use a screen reader is likely even to discuss the virtual cursor because it's an "under the hood" feature that the end user really has no need to know much about in "daily driving" with a screen reader.

If something is unfamiliar in a given piece of documentation then the appropriate course of action is to ask about it. Sometimes, and only sometimes, it is absolutely apropriate to update the documentation. Others it's appropriate to leave it be because the majority of readers will know the terminology already, or ask about it once. That's why it's always handy to have a section dedicated to standard notation in a given piece of documentation as abbreviations often get used, e.g., NVDA+{whatever}, where NVDA in that context could be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on the keyboard layout. But I don't want, "NVDA+N (INSERT+N for desktop, CAPS LOCK+N for laptop keyboard layouts, respectively)" everywhere NVDA+N is used. There is every reason that the reader of something like the NVDA User Guide should have probably either reviewed, or will look up, the concept of the NVDA key when they're unfamiliar with that notation.

You cannot and should not presume "blank slates" when writing documentation because it then becomes an ever expanding task when you cannot make reasonable base assumptions about the skill sets of individuals coming to that documentation.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Gene
 

My point, if my message wasn't clear, is that you can't discuss these things, which should be discussed in a screen-reader user guide, without explaining briefly what browse mode is and then explaining what I discussed.

Browse mode is not a part of Windows or of Windows programs. it is a screen-reader feature, just as object navigation or screen review is.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 4:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

The user should know something about the virtual pc cursor or browse mode,
as NVDA calls it. If they don't, they won't know why you switch browse mode
off for certain reasons and then on again. They won't know that the web
page, as they experience it may not be laid out the same way as a sighted
person sees it and won't be able to translate what a sighted person tells
them to where something might be on the page. They won't understand that at
times, if you turhn off browse mode, you may see a control that, for some
reason, you won't if it is on and even if they know that, they won't
understand why. They should know that quick navigation commands are used in
browse mode and that they are not a part of a sighted person browsing the
web.

An exhaustive technical knowledge of browse mode isn't necessary. You do
need to know that you are using a cursor that doesn't exist on the web page
and a sighted person doesn't see one. You should know the things I stated
above if you are a serious Internet user.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2021 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] [Solved] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:28 PM, tim wrote:
And yes, in college your are expected to know some stuff. They don't spoon
feed.-
And the issue of spoon-feeding aside, as I don't think that's exactly what's
being asked for here, there is, as I have asserted earlier, every reason for
software developers for Windows, in the year 2021, to believe that they do
not and should not have to discuss certain Windows basics as part of their
training manuals and certain terminology, either.

People can, and will, occasionally have gaps in their knowledge. I have
gaps in my knowledge. I had to get a lot of instruction on the concept of
the virtual cursor when I first started working with screen readers. But I
don't expect that the documentation on how to use a screen reader is likely
even to discuss the virtual cursor because it's an "under the hood" feature
that the end user really has no need to know much about in "daily driving"
with a screen reader.

If something is unfamiliar in a given piece of documentation then the
appropriate course of action is to ask about it. Sometimes, and only
sometimes, it is absolutely apropriate to update the documentation. Others
it's appropriate to leave it be because the majority of readers will know
the terminology already, or ask about it once. That's why it's always handy
to have a section dedicated to standard notation in a given piece of
documentation as abbreviations often get used, e.g., NVDA+{whatever}, where
NVDA in that context could be either INSERT or CAPS LOCK, depending on the
keyboard layout. But I don't want, "NVDA+N (INSERT+N for desktop, CAPS
LOCK+N for laptop keyboard layouts, respectively)" everywhere NVDA+N is
used. There is every reason that the reader of something like the NVDA User
Guide should have probably either reviewed, or will look up, the concept of
the NVDA key when they're unfamiliar with that notation.

You cannot and should not presume "blank slates" when writing documentation
because it then becomes an ever expanding task when you cannot make
reasonable base assumptions about the skill sets of individuals coming to
that documentation.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon


Blaster
 

Hi all,

The Mosen at large podcast is definitely worth listening to, it's
quite disturbing. Mike Calvo and Matt Campbell developed a free Google
Chrome extension which disables this overlay on any website it
encounters with no need for the user to do anything, it's all
automatic. They said their working on an Edge and Firefox version as
well. Here's the link to the extension on the Google Play store, it's
called "AccesiByeBye".

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/accessibyebye/ikcamkknjfdplkdjjncobgmpciklohjg/related

HTH,
Blaster

On 4/10/21, Jonathan COHN via groups.io
<jonathan.c.cohn=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
This site is usingaccessiBe overlay to modify their page. Jonathan Mosen did
a entire show just about this overlay. I have a few opinions on this, but
will be refraining and speaking them here.

On Apr 10, 2021, at 13:10, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello NVDA,

For the sake of update or summary, thanks everyone for your input into
this topic.
I am curious to know a little more about the option to use what is
called 'screen reader mode.'
Is this a way for websites to make their offerings or content more
accessible to those using screen readers?

Can a website detect when someone is visiting their website and
cookies gather what browser they are using and specialized
peripherals?
On Thursday, it appeared I was just one of the fray interested in
applying to webull.com. On Friday, the screen reader mode option was
read to me.

I gather from the information in the NVDA manual, and that found at
other websites like computer hope.com, that there are different ways
to use the mouse together with NVDA. Is that a correct assumption?

Like Sarah, I too learn what I have to do in order to accomplish what
I do on the computer or any mobile device. Hence, my skills, too, are
perhaps limited or defined.

I will check back when the daily summary appears in my inbox on Sunday
to read what replies may appear. Again, much thanks!

--
David C. Russell, Author










 

On Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 06:56 PM, Blaster wrote:
Google Chrome extension which disables this overlay on any website it encounters
-
Which should work under any Chromium-based browser, including Edge.  All you have to do is enable the installation of Chrome Store extensions under Edge:
1. Open Extensions from the Edge Menu
2. At the bottom of the Extensions page is a toggle for Allow extensions from other stores.  Turn it on.
3. Navigate to the Chrome Store page for the extension you want (within Edge) and activate the Add to Chrome button.  The button label does not change unless something's been tweaked in that regard very recently.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Steve Nutt
 

Also, other screen reader manuals refer to them as star and slash, so they should at least be referenced as such.

All the best

Steve

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-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 08 April 2021 23:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

That may be but I think the other way to refer to the keys should be given, perhaps in parenthesis. So numpad divide might be listed as numpad divide (slash). I generally see these keys referred to as slash and star, as I recall in discussions on various blind user lists I'm on.

gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2021 5:22 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Activating the Mouse with NVDA

On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 05:47 PM, David Russell wrote:
wonder what is meant by commands numpad-divide or numpad-multiply?- Exactly what they say. There are conventions for referring to specific keys on and surrounding the Number Pad as there are on the regular keyboard, and the 4 primary operations are:

Multiply - which is always the star/asterisk if you are looking at the character
Divide - which is always the slash
Plus - self explanatory
Minus - also pretty much self explanatory, but one could also say it's
the dash/hyphen

It is far more conventional to refer to number pad keys by their actual mathematical function, not as though they were alternative ways to enter those four text characters, but you can, of course, use them that way, as they can serve that purpose whether or not number lock is on.

The NVDA documentation follows the most common terminology for making reference to those key, by mathematical sign/function.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon