locked System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon


Yeti
 

Hello Brian and All,

until they are turning to a technical support group for help.
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---

Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.

Btw.
I've been training and supporting blind and sighted computer users for over 20 years. About half of them as professional. From that time I know what can make people fail.

Per Aspera

Yeti


Chris Smart
 

---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---

Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.

What bull crap.


Gene
 

I'm not sure I understand your message.  What shouldn't people try without a computer literate sighted person available?  There are computer training materials teaching Windows and Windows programs that blind people use constantly with no sighted person available.  These materials are generally developed assuming no sighted assistance.

As for ease of use, what do you mean?  It takes more work for a blind person to learn to use a computer.  Once that work is done and the blind person knows well what he/she is doing, assuming good instructions and a reasonable aptitude, it is generally not harder to use a computer. 

If you are talking about programs where you have to use object navigation or explore the screen, it takes more work than just looking at a screen and immediately seeing what you want to click on but a general statement that it is harder to use a computer is not correct.

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:07 PM, Yeti wrote:

Hello Brian and All,

until they are turning to a technical support group for help.
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---

Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.

Btw.
I've been training and supporting blind and sighted computer users for over 20 years. About half of them as professional. From that time I know what can make people fail.

Per Aspera 

Yeti 








Gene
 

You are expressing a reaction with no explanatory content.  That makes the message meaningless as far as providing content that can be discussed.  Why do you disagree? 

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:11 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---

Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.

What bull crap.








.


Chris Smart
 

I really am not sure how we got from “include Windows and screen reader version” with your bug reports or requests for help, to this strange discussion.

Presumably, Yeti teaches his students to find “About” on the Help menu of a program or type Winver into the Windows Run dialog box. If not, why not, Yeti?

It’s not difficult.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

I'm not sure I understand your message.  What shouldn't people try without a computer literate sighted person available?  There are computer training materials teaching Windows and Windows programs that blind people use constantly with no sighted person available.  These materials are generally developed assuming no sighted assistance.

As for ease of use, what do you mean?  It takes more work for a blind person to learn to use a computer.  Once that work is done and the blind person knows well what he/she is doing, assuming good instructions and a reasonable aptitude, it is generally not harder to use a computer. 

If you are talking about programs where you have to use object navigation or explore the screen, it takes more work than just looking at a screen and immediately seeing what you want to click on but a general statement that it is harder to use a computer is not correct.

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:07 PM, Yeti wrote:

Hello Brian and All,
 
until they are turning to a technical support group for help.
 
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---
 
Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.
 
Btw.
I've been training and supporting blind and sighted computer users for over 20 years. About half of them as professional. From that time I know what can make people fail.
 
Per Aspera 
 
Yeti 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 


Chris Smart
 

I strongly disagree with Yeti’s implication that anybody  here is suggesting computer users who are blind keep a handy sighted person around.

Is that better, Jean?

 

Further, while we’re making sweeping generalizations, I will suggest that most sighted people I know have very little computer knowledge. Many I’ve interacted with seem to wander around somewhat aimlessly clicking on things with the mouse. Good luck getting them to clearly describe the problem they’re having as well.

 

Anyway, this discussion is rather silly.

Did someone actually suggest that going NVDA > Help > About, or WindowsKey+R > Winver > Enter is difficult? Really?

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

You are expressing a reaction with no explanatory content.  That makes the message meaningless as far as providing content that can be discussed.  Why do you disagree? 

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:11 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

 
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---
 
Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.
 
What bull crap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 


Gene
 

Let's see what the person says;  I don't want to assume what the message means but I strongly disagree with the general statement that it is more difficult to use a computer.  It does take more work to learn to use one but that is a different question.

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:24 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

I strongly disagree with Yeti’s implication that anybody  here is suggesting computer users who are blind keep a handy sighted person around.

Is that better, Jean?

 

Further, while we’re making sweeping generalizations, I will suggest that most sighted people I know have very little computer knowledge. Many I’ve interacted with seem to wander around somewhat aimlessly clicking on things with the mouse. Good luck getting them to clearly describe the problem they’re having as well.

 

Anyway, this discussion is rather silly.

Did someone actually suggest that going NVDA > Help > About, or WindowsKey+R > Winver > Enter is difficult? Really?

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

You are expressing a reaction with no explanatory content.  That makes the message meaningless as far as providing content that can be discussed.  Why do you disagree? 

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:11 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

 
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---
 
Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.
 
What bull crap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 



Chris Smart
 

I forgot to add that sure we run into difficulties unique to our situation, but that has a lot to do with inaccessible software or websites than our ability to use a computer.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:28 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

Let's see what the person says;  I don't want to assume what the message means but I strongly disagree with the general statement that it is more difficult to use a computer.  It does take more work to learn to use one but that is a different question.

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:24 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

I strongly disagree with Yeti’s implication that anybody  here is suggesting computer users who are blind keep a handy sighted person around.

Is that better, Jean?

 

Further, while we’re making sweeping generalizations, I will suggest that most sighted people I know have very little computer knowledge. Many I’ve interacted with seem to wander around somewhat aimlessly clicking on things with the mouse. Good luck getting them to clearly describe the problem they’re having as well.

 

Anyway, this discussion is rather silly.

Did someone actually suggest that going NVDA > Help > About, or WindowsKey+R > Winver > Enter is difficult? Really?

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

You are expressing a reaction with no explanatory content.  That makes the message meaningless as far as providing content that can be discussed.  Why do you disagree? 

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:11 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

 
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---
 
Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.
 
What bull crap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 

 


 

There probably should be a way to get windows version and copy it to the clipboard, how easy would it to be to either build this into nvda or make an addon to do this.

On my wordpress site I co manage for security and to keep track of things, I have a little addon called wordpress version information.

While viewing the site publically it does nothing.

While viewing the site as an admin it will display the server software version, the wordpress version, and the sql and other systems components versions.

Thats quite usefull say if there is a hack or a security issue or requirements change and you look at that then check back to see what you have so you can get things updated.

On 28/08/2022 9:11 am, Chris Smart wrote:
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---

Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.

What bull crap.







 

You know there are times I wish I had someone on hand if I need to click something that is not really easy to handle.

But lets face it sightlings in and of themselves can be quite busy and so you try to get round.

But yeah I understand where both sides are coming from.

Let me share with you a story of what I mean.

Back more than 20 years back at university I was doing business studdies and had to do word processing and spreadsheeting.

Obviously there were issues back then.

One of them was quite good with computers, had another terminal open with the stuff we had to do, pluss all the shortcut lists and other things open, was searching for commands I needed to do to translate things back to what I needed.

I thought he just happened to be able to handle the blind well.

He did tell me at the end he had several google pages, help files and command lists open pluss everything else and was trying to keep up.

Without his help I wouldn't have got that far at all.

in another class doing spreadsheets I had another person,

They obviously didn't know what to do with me so when things got to hard for me to do did it with the mouse even during exams to help me pass.

As a result I have past spreadsheeting in theory ownly.

All the work was done for me because the person didn't know what to do.

My dad wants to know how to use the system but as a blind person he is hard to follow as he clicks here and there aimlessly.

Sometimes I tell him what should do and he ends up going all round the bush eventually tangling himself in nuts without any idea how he got there.

Yet when I complete the same procedure I can't find where he branched.

So it can work to have one that is smart enough and knows how to manage things but good luck with that.

If you constantly have issues needing a sighted help and its something you use which should work, have notes and do it that way, though if its always for program x, I have often swapped it out.

For example the stuff I currently use was not the stuff I started with.

Now having something like nvda which is more intune with the system certainly is a lot better than having to get a script or map file for another thing in order to use it with that thing.


And with the webbification of a lot if not most software most issues are almost no longer an issue though sure, there are big issues.

The biggest is when you need to read and click buttons in agreements,etc.

I do use a sightling just in case I have to click something complex or I need to find something but rarely do I bother unless its needed.

Then again I haven't needed to change my software set for the last decade.



On 28/08/2022 9:24 am, Chris Smart wrote:

I strongly disagree with Yeti’s implication that anybody  here is suggesting computer users who are blind keep a handy sighted person around.

Is that better, Jean?

 

Further, while we’re making sweeping generalizations, I will suggest that most sighted people I know have very little computer knowledge. Many I’ve interacted with seem to wander around somewhat aimlessly clicking on things with the mouse. Good luck getting them to clearly describe the problem they’re having as well.

 

Anyway, this discussion is rather silly.

Did someone actually suggest that going NVDA > Help > About, or WindowsKey+R > Winver > Enter is difficult? Really?

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: August 27, 2022 5:19 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] System information on demand (Was: Please read and consider: importance of providing exact (or almost exact) Windows version information will be helpful soon

 

You are expressing a reaction with no explanatory content.  That makes the message meaningless as far as providing content that can be discussed.  Why do you disagree? 

Gene

On 8/27/2022 4:11 PM, Chris Smart wrote:

 
---
We believe that every Blind + Vision Impaired person Deserves the right to freely & easily access a computer!
WE CREATE THE SOFTWARE WHICH MAKES THAT POSSIBL
---
 
Perhaps we should consider adding the following to the section:
Of course, it will never be as easy for blind people to use computers as it is for sighted people. Therefore, you should never attempt this without computer literate sighted friends in the immediate vicinity.
 
What bull crap.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
.

 


 

This topic is locked.

There is so much "putting of words into others mouths" going on that it should offend anyone.

Please just stop doing so, and each and every one of you who've done such know exactly who you are and when you did it.  I'm not going to tolerate this.  It's not a disagreement on principle or anything else, but assuming things neither stated nor implied.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The difference between a top-flight creative man and the hack is his ability to express powerful meanings indirectly.

         ~ Vance Packard