Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1
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Gene
Here is an update of an old thread. In recent updates of
Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on
to correct the problem. This is a point of interest because it
demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting
accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it.
I wonder how many blind people test the newest releases or betas of Thunderbird to alert the developers to problems before versions are released with problems? Gene |
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Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 7:19 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1
Here is an update of an old thread. In recent updates of Thunderbird, the status line is again read without using the add-on to correct the problem. This is a point of interest because it demonstrates that whomever is responsible for correcting accessibility problems in Thunderbird corrected it. |
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On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Often it does not matter how many blind people test, it matters however if developers are receptive to change, which sadly, most are still not.- I absolutely cannot argue with this. But the flip side is that there are organizations, and Mozilla is one of them, that have shown a dedication to accessibility for a very long time and who do try to remedy issues when those are identified. Gene has a good point as well. Any screen reader user who believes that any software maker, including the large ones, has a massive cadre of blind testers combing through upcoming software during the beta stages for potential issues is deluding themselves. Some of the largest ones have some in-house accessibility testing, most of the rest farm this out under contract to small businesses who do it. In any case, it's very easy for testers to miss something, particularly regressions, because complex pieces of software do not have each and every function retested at each release. Beta releases are put out there for a reason, and not just related to accessibility. Real end users in real world situations often encounter things that simply end up being missed by both automated and human-controlled testing. Every combination and permutation of doing thing X or Y will not be a part of formal testing. If you end up running into an issue, reporting it is what gets it fixed (at least at some point, if not nearly immediately). I've emphasized, many times, that beta releases are not out there primarily to give users a "sneak peek" of what's coming up. They're out there so that the part of the user community that's so inclined can be a part of testing under real world conditions. Part of using a beta is an implied obligation on the part of the user to report errors they encounter while using it. If you don't hit any, then that's great, but if you do, you should promptly report them. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others. ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014 |
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Gene
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird. When a production
version came out with the status line problem it was quickly
discovered and discussed here. It has been fixed a reasonable time
after the discussion so developers have shown themselves to be
responsive.
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The incident raises the question of how many blind people are beta testers or earlier release testers. While I don't think serious accessibility problems will be introduced into Thunderbird, having some blind people beta testing or earlier release testing would catch such problems before production releases. Gene On 10/29/2022 10:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
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Since most of us are under NDAs you probably won’t get an answer, I often don’t say that I’m beta testing this or that as I get hounded with requests, so I make my own NDAs when I’m testing. Only after the fact once I’m out of the team or when things have quieted do I say something, then I add, do not ask me question, do not come to me for help, do not report bugs to me. Anyway, I’m gone. From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 8:44 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird. When a production version came out with the status line problem it was quickly discovered and discussed here. It has been fixed a reasonable time after the discussion so developers have shown themselves to be responsive. On 10/29/2022 10:18 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
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On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote:
But I'm talking specifically about Thunderbird.- So what? What I brought up applies to Thunderbird or any other piece of software. Accessibility testing is best accomplished in real-world conditions, so getting blind beta testers out there who are casual users, not people who test for money, and way more of them would be a very good thing indeed. And that involves just taking it upon yourself to grab betas of things you use, use 'em, and report issues, regardless of product. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others. ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014 |
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Gene
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many
developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves
responsive.
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If developers are unresponsive, it would probably be a waste of time, but in cases where companies repeatedly release new versions of software with serious accessibility problems, then solve them once they are pointed out, I wonder if there are blind people beta testing or testing earlier releases so the company might address the problems before release. Gene On 10/29/2022 11:18 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM, Gene wrote: |
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Roger Stewart
I must be missing something here. I'm
seeing all these messages saying the status bar problem has been
fixed but I haven't been able to use it for quite a while now.I
just updated to 102.4.1 and I still can't find status bar with
NVDA at all. The progress beeps did come back very quickly but
for me, the status bar just isn't there. I checked in the view
menu and status bar is checked so if it were there, NVDA should be
able to see it but it isn't. I'm using latest stable version of
NVDA and Win 10 with latest updates installed.
Roger
On 10/29/2022 11:56 AM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive.
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Gene
I wonder what others will report.
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Gene On 10/29/2022 12:40 PM, Roger Stewart
wrote:
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Gene
Its very interesting. I just checked using the latest version, on
which I didn't install any version of the Mozilla Apps Enhancement
and the status line wasn't read. I then tried a portable version
that is a few versions behind with an older version of the apps
enhancement on it and the status line was read. Perhaps something
has changed, not intentionally, in the program that allows the old
add-on to cause the status line to be read whereas it didn't before.
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Gene On 10/29/2022 12:45 PM, Gene via
groups.io wrote:
I wonder what others will report. |
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On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM, Gene wrote:
I was responding to Sarah because even if she is right about many developers, Thunderbird developers have shown themselves responsive.- You are correct. I really thought I had expanded the bottom-quoted part of that message and thought it was in response to one of mine. I always try to check this before posting, as that's how I figure out whether to respond at all in many cases. I must not have had my second cup of coffee yet and got careless. My apologies. (I still stand by what I stated earlier, but it should not have been directed at you.) -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others. ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014 |
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Gene
Thank you. It would be interesting to know how many blind people
are beta testers of various programs.
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Gene On 10/29/2022 2:40 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 12:56 PM, Gene wrote: |
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There really is no way to find out because of our NDAs we are often under. It would be interesting however to know.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2022 12:58 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Unable To Display Status Bar IN Latest Thunderbird Version 102.1.1
Thank you. It would be interesting to know how many blind people are beta testers of various programs. On 10/29/2022 2:40 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
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On Sat, Oct 29, 2022 at 04:08 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
There really is no way to find out because of our NDAs we are often under.- That would depend on the duration of the NDA, and for testing it should not be perpetual. There are all sorts of retrospective research, where data is collected about what people were doing, saying, thinking, etc., after it's done. I imagine retrospective study of how many screen-reader users (which would probably be the metric) are beta testers could be done. But someone has to want that data before it will ever be collected. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045 There are many people who can only make themselves feel better about themselves by making themselves feel better than others. ~ Commenter Looking_in on the Washington Post, 7/10/2014 |
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