Topics

Using NVDA and Number Pad on laptop


Brian Williams
 

Hi all, I have recently been using a very low-cost laptop which had only the basic keys. I have just moved to a higher spec model which has a compact NumPad. The keyboard doesn’t have a home or end key and I am struggling to work out which key combinations to use using NumPad to move to the beginning of text, beginning of line, and vice versa end of text and end of line. It seems like every laptop, even different models of the same make, seem to have a different keyboard layout. Is it better to have the FN key activated or deactivated when using NVDA in combination with any of the keys? Sorry for so many questions but I’m totally confused. Thanks for your help, hopefully.
Brian


 

Having the exact make and model would be helpful.

As a general statement, you want your function keys to act as function keys if you are a screen reader user, so if they have any sort of "media keys" feature enabled by default it should be disabled via whatever method your particular machine requires.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Brian Williams
 

Hi Brian, thanks for your help. It’s in Acer aspire three if that’s of any help. It has a compact number pad on the right hand side of the keyboard.

On 9 Jan 2021, at 3:27 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Having the exact make and model would be helpful.

As a general statement, you want your function keys to act as function keys if you are a screen reader user, so if they have any sort of "media keys" feature enabled by default it should be disabled via whatever method your particular machine requires.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


 

Brian,

Your computer does, as I suspected, have a Home and a Delete key, and these are immediately above the backspace key, the Delete is the one to the left and the Home to the right, but these also appear to be assigned as media keys, which will need to be disabled.

As much as I suspect I am going to be excoriated for saying this:  Sometimes there is absolutely no substitute for sight, and getting the "lay of the land" for an unfamiliar keyboard is one of those times.  You can spend days to weeks trying to guess what a sighted assistant can tell you in mere moments.  It makes sense to engage someone, very briefly, to let you know "where they've squeezed things" when you're dealing with a compact keyboard where the layout is definitely different than the keyboards on most laptops 15 inch and above in size.  It appears that Acer is using a slightly squeezed keyboard on the 15 inch series, as the 14 inch has no number pad.

Here is a download link for the User Manual for the Aspire serie:  https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=637275362518627296&Step1=NOTEBOOK&Step2=ASPIRE&Step3=ASPIRE%20A314-22&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6 

Page 18 of the manual clearly indicates that BIOS/UEFI needs to be tweaked to turn off the hotkey functions and have them behave as typical function keys.  Unless that is done, you must press the Fn key plus the given function key for it to behave as the function key.  Once turned off, the situation flip-flops, where Fn plus the given function key will behave as the hotkey, but a press of the function key acts as the function key itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Brian Williams
 

Ryan to Brian, thank you very much. You’ve been extremely helpful. I will download the manual and bury myself in it. We get so used to a particular laptop layout and what actions do what, it becomes muscle memory. Get a new one and you have to start again. Thanks again and happy New Year.

On 9 Jan 2021, at 5:32 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Brian,

Your computer does, as I suspected, have a Home and a Delete key, and these are immediately above the backspace key, the Delete is the one to the left and the Home to the right, but these also appear to be assigned as media keys, which will need to be disabled.

As much as I suspect I am going to be excoriated for saying this:  Sometimes there is absolutely no substitute for sight, and getting the "lay of the land" for an unfamiliar keyboard is one of those times.  You can spend days to weeks trying to guess what a sighted assistant can tell you in mere moments.  It makes sense to engage someone, very briefly, to let you know "where they've squeezed things" when you're dealing with a compact keyboard where the layout is definitely different than the keyboards on most laptops 15 inch and above in size.  It appears that Acer is using a slightly squeezed keyboard on the 15 inch series, as the 14 inch has no number pad.

Here is a download link for the User Manual for the Aspire serie:  https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=637275362518627296&Step1=NOTEBOOK&Step2=ASPIRE&Step3=ASPIRE%20A314-22&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6 

Page 18 of the manual clearly indicates that BIOS/UEFI needs to be tweaked to turn off the hotkey functions and have them behave as typical function keys.  Unless that is done, you must press the Fn key plus the given function key for it to behave as the function key.  Once turned off, the situation flip-flops, where Fn plus the given function key will behave as the hotkey, but a press of the function key acts as the function key itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

When I bought my phone, I had the salesperson tell me what keys did what, aside from the number keys, of course. When I bought my laptop, I had the salesperson tell me about keys that aren't in the places they are on a standard keyboard. You simply can't live in the world with no sighted help.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2021 11:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA and Number Pad on laptop

Brian,

Your computer does, as I suspected, have a Home and a Delete key, and these are immediately above the backspace key, the Delete is the one to the left and the Home to the right, but these also appear to be assigned as media keys, which will need to be disabled.

As much as I suspect I am going to be excoriated for saying this: Sometimes there is absolutely no substitute for sight, and getting the "lay of the land" for an unfamiliar keyboard is one of those times. You can spend days to weeks trying to guess what a sighted assistant can tell you in mere moments. It makes sense to engage someone, very briefly, to let you know "where they've squeezed things" when you're dealing with a compact keyboard where the layout is definitely different than the keyboards on most laptops 15 inch and above in size. It appears that Acer is using a slightly squeezed keyboard on the 15 inch series, as the 14 inch has no number pad.

Here is a download link for the User Manual for the Aspire serie: https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=637275362518627296&;Step1=NOTEBOOK&Step2=ASPIRE&Step3=ASPIRE%20A314-22&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6

Page 18 of the manual clearly indicates that BIOS/UEFI needs to be tweaked to turn off the hotkey functions and have them behave as typical function keys. Unless that is done, you must press the Fn key plus the given function key for it to behave as the function key. Once turned off, the situation flip-flops, where Fn plus the given function key will behave as the hotkey, but a press of the function key acts as the function key itself.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

~ Brian Vogel


 

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 03:04 PM, Gene wrote:
You simply can't live in the world with no sighted help.
-
Well, you probably could, but you'd have to be a masochist to be an absolutist about it!  ;-)

I've always said that it's all about getting the job done in the most efficient way, and sometimes that means engaging assistance (whether you're blind, fully sighted, or somewhere in between).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


benmoxey@...
 

Hi Ryan

 

I just came across an Acer laptop yesterday for the first time in a while. This model had a small Page Up key above the left arrow, and a small Page Down key directly above the right arrow. If you hold the Function key (second from the bottom left) and press the Page Up, it becomes Home. Hold the Function and press Page Down for End. I thought it might be worth mentioning in case yours is the same. It’s quite intuitive when you get used to it.

 

Of course, still follow Brian’s advice regarding changing the behaviour of the F1 to F12 keys for the best screen reader experience.

 

Cheers

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Williams
Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2021 4:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA and Number Pad on laptop

 

Ryan to Brian, thank you very much. You’ve been extremely helpful. I will download the manual and bury myself in it. We get so used to a particular laptop layout and what actions do what, it becomes muscle memory. Get a new one and you have to start again. Thanks again and happy New Year.


On 9 Jan 2021, at 5:32 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Brian,

Your computer does, as I suspected, have a Home and a Delete key, and these are immediately above the backspace key, the Delete is the one to the left and the Home to the right, but these also appear to be assigned as media keys, which will need to be disabled.

As much as I suspect I am going to be excoriated for saying this:  Sometimes there is absolutely no substitute for sight, and getting the "lay of the land" for an unfamiliar keyboard is one of those times.  You can spend days to weeks trying to guess what a sighted assistant can tell you in mere moments.  It makes sense to engage someone, very briefly, to let you know "where they've squeezed things" when you're dealing with a compact keyboard where the layout is definitely different than the keyboards on most laptops 15 inch and above in size.  It appears that Acer is using a slightly squeezed keyboard on the 15 inch series, as the 14 inch has no number pad.

Here is a download link for the User Manual for the Aspire serie:  https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=637275362518627296&Step1=NOTEBOOK&Step2=ASPIRE&Step3=ASPIRE%20A314-22&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6 

Page 18 of the manual clearly indicates that BIOS/UEFI needs to be tweaked to turn off the hotkey functions and have them behave as typical function keys.  Unless that is done, you must press the Fn key plus the given function key for it to behave as the function key.  Once turned off, the situation flip-flops, where Fn plus the given function key will behave as the hotkey, but a press of the function key acts as the function key itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel

 


Brian Williams
 

Hi Ben thanks, but this is a strange beast. It has no actual home keys as such. Currently the media keys are the arrow keys with the function key, function key plus Up arrow play pause down arrow  stop, left arrow previous track, right arrow next track. Function key with function  9 10 or 11 is volume mute, down, up. I’ve now worked out that control numbpad seven is home key, Control numpad one is end, Control numpad for is beginning of line and control numpad six is end of line. But, I’m getting there. Thanks for your help.
Brian

On 14 Jan 2021, at 7:32 pm, benmoxey@... wrote:



Hi Ryan

 

I just came across an Acer laptop yesterday for the first time in a while. This model had a small Page Up key above the left arrow, and a small Page Down key directly above the right arrow. If you hold the Function key (second from the bottom left) and press the Page Up, it becomes Home. Hold the Function and press Page Down for End. I thought it might be worth mentioning in case yours is the same. It’s quite intuitive when you get used to it.

 

Of course, still follow Brian’s advice regarding changing the behaviour of the F1 to F12 keys for the best screen reader experience.

 

Cheers

 

Ben

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Williams
Sent: Sunday, 10 January 2021 4:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Using NVDA and Number Pad on laptop

 

Ryan to Brian, thank you very much. You’ve been extremely helpful. I will download the manual and bury myself in it. We get so used to a particular laptop layout and what actions do what, it becomes muscle memory. Get a new one and you have to start again. Thanks again and happy New Year.


On 9 Jan 2021, at 5:32 pm, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Brian,

Your computer does, as I suspected, have a Home and a Delete key, and these are immediately above the backspace key, the Delete is the one to the left and the Home to the right, but these also appear to be assigned as media keys, which will need to be disabled.

As much as I suspect I am going to be excoriated for saying this:  Sometimes there is absolutely no substitute for sight, and getting the "lay of the land" for an unfamiliar keyboard is one of those times.  You can spend days to weeks trying to guess what a sighted assistant can tell you in mere moments.  It makes sense to engage someone, very briefly, to let you know "where they've squeezed things" when you're dealing with a compact keyboard where the layout is definitely different than the keyboards on most laptops 15 inch and above in size.  It appears that Acer is using a slightly squeezed keyboard on the 15 inch series, as the 14 inch has no number pad.

Here is a download link for the User Manual for the Aspire serie:  https://global-download.acer.com/GDFiles/Document/User%20Manual/User%20Manual_Acer_1.0_A_A.pdf?acerid=637275362518627296&Step1=NOTEBOOK&Step2=ASPIRE&Step3=ASPIRE%20A314-22&OS=ALL&LC=en&BC=ACER&SC=PA_6 

Page 18 of the manual clearly indicates that BIOS/UEFI needs to be tweaked to turn off the hotkey functions and have them behave as typical function keys.  Unless that is done, you must press the Fn key plus the given function key for it to behave as the function key.  Once turned off, the situation flip-flops, where Fn plus the given function key will behave as the hotkey, but a press of the function key acts as the function key itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

The depths of denial one can be pushed to by outside forces of disapproval can make you not even recognize yourself to yourself.

       ~ Brian Vogel