Websites that determine where NVDA starts at


Giles Turnbull
 

Hi all, I apologise for the rather clunky and undescriptive subject line!

I have found several websites shift the NVDA cursor to the website's privacy settings link when the page loads. I experience this most with the Sainsbury's supermarket website.  after I have searched for an item and added it to my basket, when I return to the search page, NVDA gets repositioned to the Heding 3 that is We value your privacy, which is right at the bottom of the webpage, with only the Cookie Settings links below it. Of course it's easy to press CTRL+Home to jump straight back up to the top of the webpage, but I find it a pain when I have to do it thirty times during the course of doing my weekly shop.

I can't remember off the top of my head, which other websites have this behaviour, but it is quite a few. Simple question ... is there any way to stop a website from doing this to NVDA, or any NVDA setting that can stop this happening?

I am using NVDA 2020.4 and it is happening with Firefox 89.0.1 and also in Chrome.

Thanks,

Giles


Gene
 

I doubt it.  this sounds to me like  a misapplication of JAVA script.  when it is used properly to move to a position, it performs tasks like automatically place the user in the search field when on the google search page.  This sounds like some illogical behavior, dreamed up by who knows who for who knows what reason.
 
I wonder what the most efficient way is to deal with the problem.  Are there any add-ons for NVDA that allow you to specify a place on the page you can return to with one command?  it sounds as though you want to return to the edit field.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at
 
Hi all, I apologise for the rather clunky and undescriptive subject line!

I have found several websites shift the NVDA cursor to the website's privacy settings link when the page loads. I experience this most with the Sainsbury's supermarket website.  after I have searched for an item and added it to my basket, when I return to the search page, NVDA gets repositioned to the Heding 3 that is We value your privacy, which is right at the bottom of the webpage, with only the Cookie Settings links below it. Of course it's easy to press CTRL+Home to jump straight back up to the top of the webpage, but I find it a pain when I have to do it thirty times during the course of doing my weekly shop.

I can't remember off the top of my head, which other websites have this behaviour, but it is quite a few. Simple question ... is there any way to stop a website from doing this to NVDA, or any NVDA setting that can stop this happening?

I am using NVDA 2020.4 and it is happening with Firefox 89.0.1 and also in Chrome.

Thanks,

Giles


Gene
 

Having now found and gone to the home page of the site you mention, I am not moved to the privacy link.  Are you working with the home page?  There is a search field on the page but you don’t tell us which page you are working with.  I don’t know if I am looking at the same page.
 
If people are discussing a problem on a web site, they should copy the link to the page from the address bar and paste it into the message so we don’t have to search for the site and also so we know we are on the page you are discussing.
 
Once we know what page is being discussed, I hope people will see if they have this problem.  We need to see if it is a general problem or a problem you are having for some reason that doesn’t affect others.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 8:47 AM
Subject: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at
 
Hi all, I apologise for the rather clunky and undescriptive subject line!

I have found several websites shift the NVDA cursor to the website's privacy settings link when the page loads. I experience this most with the Sainsbury's supermarket website.  after I have searched for an item and added it to my basket, when I return to the search page, NVDA gets repositioned to the Heding 3 that is We value your privacy, which is right at the bottom of the webpage, with only the Cookie Settings links below it. Of course it's easy to press CTRL+Home to jump straight back up to the top of the webpage, but I find it a pain when I have to do it thirty times during the course of doing my weekly shop.

I can't remember off the top of my head, which other websites have this behaviour, but it is quite a few. Simple question ... is there any way to stop a website from doing this to NVDA, or any NVDA setting that can stop this happening?

I am using NVDA 2020.4 and it is happening with Firefox 89.0.1 and also in Chrome.

Thanks,

Giles


 

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 10:41 AM, Gene wrote:
If people are discussing a problem on a web site, they should copy the link to the page from the address bar and paste it into the message so we don’t have to search for the site and also so we know we are on the page you are discussing.
-
I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated before the membership finally starts doing it, but I'm repeating it because it is an absolute must, unless such page happens to be behind a login, like a banking page.

It is impossible to give accurate answers with insufficient premises to work on.  And, by the way, that's not a complaint about the title.  It would be hard to come up with a pinpoint description of the issue, but the issue itself was described just fine in the original message.  What's missing is "the exact where," which is what's needed.

Those asking about issues with a specific webpage should put that webpage URL in their first message about said issues.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Chris
 

If this is happening on a lot of sites, it may be the EU’s GDPR cookie consent banner, where you have to either accept or reject cookies to be placed onto your browser, this is for all sites for countries in the EU, including the UK still

 

And it may be that this banner is taking focus after the browser refreshes

 

 

Other than that it appears that the Sainsburys website is working a it should

 

From: Giles Turnbull
Sent: 20 June 2021 14:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at

 

Hi all, I apologise for the rather clunky and undescriptive subject line!

I have found several websites shift the NVDA cursor to the website's privacy settings link when the page loads. I experience this most with the Sainsbury's supermarket website.  after I have searched for an item and added it to my basket, when I return to the search page, NVDA gets repositioned to the Heding 3 that is We value your privacy, which is right at the bottom of the webpage, with only the Cookie Settings links below it. Of course it's easy to press CTRL+Home to jump straight back up to the top of the webpage, but I find it a pain when I have to do it thirty times during the course of doing my weekly shop.

I can't remember off the top of my head, which other websites have this behaviour, but it is quite a few. Simple question ... is there any way to stop a website from doing this to NVDA, or any NVDA setting that can stop this happening?

I am using NVDA 2020.4 and it is happening with Firefox 89.0.1 and also in Chrome.

Thanks,

Giles

 


Jonathan COHN
 

Does the Frontier Airlines sit'e do this? I spent a bit of time yesterday trying to figure out why that site behaves so badly on a Mac with Safari. Though I have to say it worked much better with Firefox on the Mac which is weird since 6 months ago one could not use Firefox with Voiceover. 


On Jun 20, 2021, at 9:47 AM, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:

Hi all, I apologise for the rather clunky and undescriptive subject line!

I have found several websites shift the NVDA cursor to the website's privacy settings link when the page loads. I experience this most with the Sainsbury's supermarket website.  after I have searched for an item and added it to my basket, when I return to the search page, NVDA gets repositioned to the Heding 3 that is We value your privacy, which is right at the bottom of the webpage, with only the Cookie Settings links below it. Of course it's easy to press CTRL+Home to jump straight back up to the top of the webpage, but I find it a pain when I have to do it thirty times during the course of doing my weekly shop.

I can't remember off the top of my head, which other websites have this behaviour, but it is quite a few. Simple question ... is there any way to stop a website from doing this to NVDA, or any NVDA setting that can stop this happening?

I am using NVDA 2020.4 and it is happening with Firefox 89.0.1 and also in Chrome.

Thanks,

Giles


Giles Turnbull
 

I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles


Gene
 

You should be able to solve the problem by causing the page you want to work with to open in a new window.  For example, when you are using search, write the search item and instead of pressing enter, press shift enter.  That opens the results page in a new window.  When you have finished working with it, close the new window with alt f4.  You are now back on the page where you were and you should be in exactly the same place you were because the page has been opened all the time in another window and you did nothing to change your position.
 
I can’t test that here because I don’t see the banner, looking at the page from the United states, but whatever the cause, this method should work around the problem.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at
 
I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles


Jonathan COHN
 

Hello,
Most of these  privacy notices have links or buttons in them to either accept or not accept cookies. Once you have this configured, the dialog should pretty much go away. The EU does require that it be fairly easy to change your choices in the  future, and I am not sure about how most web site developers are handling that. Be glad they are not marking the dialog up as being "modal" meaning that you can't exit the dialog until you make a choice.
Jonathan Cohn 



On Jun 21, 2021, at 09:49, Giles Turnbull <giles.turnbull@...> wrote:

I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles


Clive May <clive.may@...>
 

Hi


Just click the "I accept" cookie button and the behaviour will go away - at least, for that session and that particular page. 

On 21/06/2021 15:01, Gene wrote:
You should be able to solve the problem by causing the page you want to work with to open in a new window.  For example, when you are using search, write the search item and instead of pressing enter, press shift enter.  That opens the results page in a new window.  When you have finished working with it, close the new window with alt f4.  You are now back on the page where you were and you should be in exactly the same place you were because the page has been opened all the time in another window and you did nothing to change your position.
 
I can’t test that here because I don’t see the banner, looking at the page from the United states, but whatever the cause, this method should work around the problem.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at
 
I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles


 

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 12:49 PM, Clive May wrote:
Just click the "I accept" cookie button and the behaviour will go away - at least, for that session and that particular page. 
-
Just be aware that if you are someone who is routinely clearing cookies, this behavior will come back, as it's cookies that are used to keep track of whether you've agreed to accept cookies or not.

I sometimes prefer that these dialogs are modal, as they force a choice to be made and then don't come back again until or unless you clear cookies.  
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

That does not  always work. Most things that open in the same page cannot be opened in another window or tab.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at

 

You should be able to solve the problem by causing the page you want to work with to open in a new window.  For example, when you are using search, write the search item and instead of pressing enter, press shift enter.  That opens the results page in a new window.  When you have finished working with it, close the new window with alt f4.  You are now back on the page where you were and you should be in exactly the same place you were because the page has been opened all the time in another window and you did nothing to change your position.

 

I can’t test that here because I don’t see the banner, looking at the page from the United states, but whatever the cause, this method should work around the problem.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:49 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at

 

I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles


Gene
 

the question was how to follow a link, return to the same page, and be where you left off and that is what I answered.  However, farther in the thread, it was said that this may be a European mandated cookie message that was moving focus.  I don’t know if my suggestion would work if that is the case.  it wasn’t discussed further and how to deal with the cookie message was.  I haven’t tried shift enter on links that open material on the same page.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at
 

That does not  always work. Most things that open in the same page cannot be opened in another window or tab.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 7:02 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at

 

You should be able to solve the problem by causing the page you want to work with to open in a new window.  For example, when you are using search, write the search item and instead of pressing enter, press shift enter.  That opens the results page in a new window.  When you have finished working with it, close the new window with alt f4.  You are now back on the page where you were and you should be in exactly the same place you were because the page has been opened all the time in another window and you did nothing to change your position.

 

I can’t test that here because I don’t see the banner, looking at the page from the United states, but whatever the cause, this method should work around the problem.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2021 8:49 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Websites that determine where NVDA starts at

 

I apologise for not specifying the exact page. It is https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I notice it when I activate Groceries, which seems to change the page but the address remains as https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/

I think it is exactly what Chris says, the EU's GDPR banner seizing focus. If I search for an item and then add it to my basket, then go back to the main Groceries page, the focus jumps to the GDPR banner about cookies, which appears right at the bottom of the page.

As I say, it's not a major hastle to jump back to the top of the page or to press shift+e to jump to the previous search field, it's just an annoyance to be taken down to that cookie banner every time I have to go back to that page. Anybody who also pays attention to the TAVIP blind computer discussion  group will also recall that Sainsbury's have been messing around with their website, but they have been listening to difficulties that TAVIP members have expressed, which is good to hear.

Giles