What exactly is an "object"?


Janet Brandly
 

                Hello all,

 

This may be a stupid question, but perhaps if I understand this more clearly it could help me use this InScribe medical transcription program I am fighting with.

 

The NVDA users guide talks a lot about objects, object navigation, etc. What exactly is an “object”? Please keep in mind that I am not a high-end user or a programmer.

 

Thanks for your explanation.

 

Janet


Jujube
 

Hi, I am sure someone else can explain this better than I can but I
think objects can include anything such as buttons, list items, links,
toolbars, status bars etc...

On 7/17/21, Janet Brandly <jbrandly@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hello all,



This may be a stupid question, but perhaps if I understand this more
clearly
it could help me use this InScribe medical transcription program I am
fighting with.



The NVDA users guide talks a lot about objects, object navigation, etc.
What
exactly is an "object"? Please keep in mind that I am not a high-end user
or
a programmer.



Thanks for your explanation.



Janet







 

Jujube,

The only thing I'd add is that objects include things that are not conventional controls, and the example of the status bar (that isn't a conventional status bar in presentation) at the bottom of File Explorer is a good example.

The term "object" is intentionally vague or meta because so many different things are implemented as objects of some sort.  It's a catch-all term for anything you can gain focus on that may or may not be a control you can interact with, but can be examined by the screen reader.  Many objects are intentionally ignored when not in object navigation mode because they're "just distractions" in a number of circumstances.  But under the newer Windows UI the use of objects has increased compared to the old days.  I'm still trying to get really up to speed on object navigation myself.  As an aside, I believe that the JAWS analogous construct is the touch cursor, but I could be wrong on that.

These two references may prove to be helpful:

Unravel the enigma of NVDA Object Nav. - COOL BLIND TECH (podcast, downloadable but also playable on that website)

and

NVDA review cursor and object navigation. - HANIF.CO (audio presentation previously recorded on June 4, 2020)

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Jujube
 

That's good to know, thanks :)

On 7/17/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Jujube,

The only thing I'd add is that objects include things that are not
conventional controls, and the example of the status bar (that isn't a
conventional status bar in presentation) at the bottom of File Explorer is a
good example.

The term "object" is intentionally vague or meta because so many different
things are implemented as objects of some sort.  It's a catch-all term for
anything you can gain focus on that may or may not be a control you can
interact with, but can be examined by the screen reader.  Many objects are
intentionally ignored when not in object navigation mode because they're
"just distractions" in a number of circumstances.  But under the newer
Windows UI the use of objects has increased compared to the old days.  I'm
still trying to get really up to speed on object navigation myself.  As an
aside, I believe that the JAWS analogous construct is the touch cursor, but
I could be wrong on that.

These two references may prove to be helpful:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unravel the enigma of NVDA Object Nav. - COOL BLIND TECH (
https://coolblindtech.com/unravel-the-enigma-of-nvda-object-nav/ ) (podcast,
downloadable but also playable on that website)

and

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NVDA review cursor and object navigation. - HANIF.CO (
https://hanif.co/dl/NVDA%20review%20cursor%20and%20object%20navigation.m4a )
(audio presentation previously recorded on June 4, 2020)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.
The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression,
which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the
clearest indicator of who you are.

~ Brian Vogel






Gene
 

An interesting aspect of objects is that they can be very large.  I think most objects are small, that is my impression.  I don’t know if this is generally true of text editors and word processors, but if I open a long document in Notepad, it doesn’t matter how long it is, the entire document is one object and I can move through all the text using NVDA object review commands.
 
I have no idea if this has any bearing on the program under discussion but its good to know in case you come across a large object.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jujube
Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] What exactly is an "object"?
 
That's good to know, thanks :)

On 7/17/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Jujube,
>
> The only thing I'd add is that objects include things that are not
> conventional controls, and the example of the status bar (that isn't a
> conventional status bar in presentation) at the bottom of File Explorer is a
> good example.
>
> The term "object" is intentionally vague or meta because so many different
> things are implemented as objects of some sort.  It's a catch-all term for
> anything you can gain focus on that may or may not be a control you can
> interact with, but can be examined by the screen reader.  Many objects are
> intentionally ignored when not in object navigation mode because they're
> "just distractions" in a number of circumstances.  But under the newer
> Windows UI the use of objects has increased compared to the old days.  I'm
> still trying to get really up to speed on object navigation myself.  As an
> aside, I believe that the JAWS analogous construct is the touch cursor, but
> I could be wrong on that.
>
> These two references may prove to be helpful:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unravel the enigma of NVDA Object Nav. - COOL BLIND TECH (
> https://coolblindtech.com/unravel-the-enigma-of-nvda-object-nav/ ) (podcast,
> downloadable but also playable on that website)
>
> and
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> NVDA review cursor and object navigation. - HANIF.CO (
> https://hanif.co/dl/NVDA%20review%20cursor%20and%20object%20navigation.m4a )
> (audio presentation previously recorded on June 4, 2020)
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
>
> Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043
>
> I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.
> The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression,
> which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the
> clearest indicator of who you are.
>
> ~ Brian Vogel
>
>
>
>
>
>





 

On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 02:41 PM, Gene wrote:
An interesting aspect of objects is that they can be very large.
-
Yup, because, in the case you describe, the object is the "text container" for the entire document.

Objects are hierarchical as well, in that certain objects can only occur embedded in other objects.  A good, but stupid example, being that if the object is a button there is no text container that can be within it, but if the object is a window, there are all sorts of potential objects that could be in that.  Just playing with reporting the current object, and moving out to the containing object a couple of times gives you a sense, to some extent, of the kind of scoping.  I just did that while looking at the NVDA Commands Quick reference in Brave and you move from the document content, to the document, to the Brave tab (reported as application window, I think), then out to the desktop.

I really do need to play with object navigation more extensively to get an intuitive feel for the scoping that's going on for various objects when using various applications.  Eventually you're always going to end up back at an application window, followed by desktop if you keep moving out to the next containing object.  But where you end up if you keep moving from the current object to its first contained object is directly dependent on what the current object happens to be and what other types of objects it is capable of containing.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel