Topics

What is UI automation in Windows console for?

Vincent Le Goff
 

Hi everyone,


I recently saw some users advising to turn on the "UI automation in Windows console settings" for those experiencing issues with the Windows console.  I'm relying a lot on this console (that is, cmd.exe, not PowerShell) for development, testing and such.  I couldn't find what this setting was.  I did try to turn it on and, (ho horrors), my Braille display saw nothing but weird characters in the console!  So I quickly turned it off.  Don't know what the synthesizer reports, but my Braille display doesn't report anything consistent, or even readable.


Can someone elaborate on what this setting is supposed to do? There's a good reason it's in "advanced settings", I guess, but if it's bound to be merged and active by default in later versions of NVDA, I will stress that it's not working (at least, in Braille, as far as I could tell).  I couldn't find a document that explained this feature in more details, I might have missed it.


Just curious here.


Cheers,


Vincent

Jacob Kruger
 

Vincent, from the what's new documentation/feature listing:

Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available
When this option is enabled, NVDA will use a new, work in progress version of its support for Windows Console which takes advantage of accessibility improvements made by Microsoft. This feature is highly experimental and is still incomplete, so its use is not yet recommended. However, once completed, it is anticipated that this new support will become the default, improving NVDA's performance and stability in Windows command consoles.


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2019-09-10 10:41 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


I recently saw some users advising to turn on the "UI automation in Windows console settings" for those experiencing issues with the Windows console.  I'm relying a lot on this console (that is, cmd.exe, not PowerShell) for development, testing and such.  I couldn't find what this setting was.  I did try to turn it on and, (ho horrors), my Braille display saw nothing but weird characters in the console!  So I quickly turned it off.  Don't know what the synthesizer reports, but my Braille display doesn't report anything consistent, or even readable.


Can someone elaborate on what this setting is supposed to do? There's a good reason it's in "advanced settings", I guess, but if it's bound to be merged and active by default in later versions of NVDA, I will stress that it's not working (at least, in Braille, as far as I could tell).  I couldn't find a document that explained this feature in more details, I might have missed it.


Just curious here.


Cheers,


Vincent



Rob Hudson
 

But it doesn't tell us how it will do that. Sounds like a lot of doublespeak to me.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:10:11 +0200
Subject: Re: [nvda] What is UI automation in Windows console for?

Vincent, from the what's new documentation/feature listing:

Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available
When this option is enabled, NVDA will use a new, work in progress
version of its support for Windows Console which takes advantage of
accessibility improvements made by Microsoft. This feature is highly
experimental and is still incomplete, so its use is not yet recommended.
However, once completed, it is anticipated that this new support will
become the default, improving NVDA's performance and stability in
Windows command consoles.


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2019-09-10 10:41 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


I recently saw some users advising to turn on the "UI automation in
Windows console settings" for those experiencing issues with the
Windows console. I'm relying a lot on this console (that is, cmd.exe,
not PowerShell) for development, testing and such. I couldn't find
what this setting was. I did try to turn it on and, (ho horrors), my
Braille display saw nothing but weird characters in the console! So I
quickly turned it off. Don't know what the synthesizer reports, but
my Braille display doesn't report anything consistent, or even readable.


Can someone elaborate on what this setting is supposed to do? There's
a good reason it's in "advanced settings", I guess, but if it's bound
to be merged and active by default in later versions of NVDA, I will
stress that it's not working (at least, in Braille, as far as I could
tell). I couldn't find a document that explained this feature in more
details, I might have missed it.


Just curious here.


Cheers,


Vincent






Vincent Le Goff
 

To us, it might sound like magic indeed!  But as long as the feature is considered still a work in progress, I won't complain. Just don't merge it right now (don't know if it's worth opening an issue to report how Braille support works, or doesn't work, in this setup).


Vincent

On 9/10/2019 11:11 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
But it doesn't tell us how it will do that. Sounds like a lot of doublespeak to me.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:10:11 +0200
Subject: Re: [nvda] What is UI automation in Windows console for?

Vincent, from the what's new documentation/feature listing:

Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available
When this option is enabled, NVDA will use a new, work in progress
version of its support for Windows Console which takes advantage of
accessibility improvements made by Microsoft. This feature is highly
experimental and is still incomplete, so its use is not yet recommended.
However, once completed, it is anticipated that this new support will
become the default, improving NVDA's performance and stability in
Windows command consoles.


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2019-09-10 10:41 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


I recently saw some users advising to turn on the "UI automation in
Windows console settings" for those experiencing issues with the
Windows console.  I'm relying a lot on this console (that is, cmd.exe,
not PowerShell) for development, testing and such.  I couldn't find
what this setting was.  I did try to turn it on and, (ho horrors), my
Braille display saw nothing but weird characters in the console!  So I
quickly turned it off.  Don't know what the synthesizer reports, but
my Braille display doesn't report anything consistent, or even readable.


Can someone elaborate on what this setting is supposed to do? There's
a good reason it's in "advanced settings", I guess, but if it's bound
to be merged and active by default in later versions of NVDA, I will
stress that it's not working (at least, in Braille, as far as I could
tell).  I couldn't find a document that explained this feature in more
details, I might have missed it.


Just curious here.


Cheers,


Vincent





Luke Davis
 

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019, Vincent Le Goff wrote:

right now (don't know if it's worth opening an issue to report how Braille support works, or doesn't work, in this setup).
Probably so. I don't remember hearing of that particular issue before. Worth a search first, but it may help to refine the feature.

Luke

Jacob Kruger
 

If you open the NVDA 19.2 user guide, and, find the heading level 5, "Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available", then under it, you will find the text I copied, including a link to the following page on windows accessibility:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/whats-new-in-windows-console-in-windows-10-fall-creators-update/


And, the title of that page is the following: What’s new in Windows Console in Windows 10 Fall Creators Update".


In other words, it sounds to me like NVDA is trying to keep up to date with what windows 10 development team is doing themselves?


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2019-09-10 11:11 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
But it doesn't tell us how it will do that. Sounds like a lot of doublespeak to me.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacob@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:10:11 +0200
Subject: Re: [nvda] What is UI automation in Windows console for?

Vincent, from the what's new documentation/feature listing:

Use UI Automation to access the Windows Console when available
When this option is enabled, NVDA will use a new, work in progress
version of its support for Windows Console which takes advantage of
accessibility improvements made by Microsoft. This feature is highly
experimental and is still incomplete, so its use is not yet recommended.
However, once completed, it is anticipated that this new support will
become the default, improving NVDA's performance and stability in
Windows command consoles.


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
"Resistance is futile...but, acceptance is versatile..."
On 2019-09-10 10:41 AM, Vincent Le Goff wrote:
Hi everyone,


I recently saw some users advising to turn on the "UI automation in
Windows console settings" for those experiencing issues with the
Windows console.  I'm relying a lot on this console (that is, cmd.exe,
not PowerShell) for development, testing and such.  I couldn't find
what this setting was.  I did try to turn it on and, (ho horrors), my
Braille display saw nothing but weird characters in the console!  So I
quickly turned it off.  Don't know what the synthesizer reports, but
my Braille display doesn't report anything consistent, or even readable.


Can someone elaborate on what this setting is supposed to do? There's
a good reason it's in "advanced settings", I guess, but if it's bound
to be merged and active by default in later versions of NVDA, I will
stress that it's not working (at least, in Braille, as far as I could
tell).  I couldn't find a document that explained this feature in more
details, I might have missed it.


Just curious here.


Cheers,


Vincent





Lukasz Golonka
 

Hello,

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:13:58 +0200
"Vincent Le Goff" <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

To us, it might sound like magic indeed!  But as long as the feature is considered still a work in progress, I won't complain. Just don't merge it right now (don't know if it's worth opening an issue to report how Braille support works, or doesn't work, in this setup).

It definitely is. This option would be, and (in the Alpha versions is
already) on by default on recent versions of Windows 10. So if you can
please try with the latest Alpha versions, and if the problem persist
create an issue.


--
Regards
Lukasz

Vincent Le Goff
 

I will.  Don't worry, you'll hear me cry in agony if Braille accessibility is broken.  But if I can avoid that, I will for sure!


Vincent

On 9/10/2019 12:44 PM, Lukasz Golonka wrote:
Hello,

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:13:58 +0200
"Vincent Le Goff" <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

To us, it might sound like magic indeed!  But as long as the feature is considered still a work in progress, I won't complain. Just don't merge it right now (don't know if it's worth opening an issue to report how Braille support works, or doesn't work, in this setup).
It definitely is. This option would be, and (in the Alpha versions is
already) on by default on recent versions of Windows 10. So if you can
please try with the latest Alpha versions, and if the problem persist
create an issue.

Vincent Le Goff
 

I did test it and it's behaving the same way in Braille, the only difference being the feature is active by default.  So I opened an issue.  For us using Braille, I'm not exaggerating when I say this new feature makes the console totally inaccessible.  This will need, in my opinion, lots of further testing with a Braille display (or in debug mode to read the Braille output, though that's not the best way to debug I guess).  But I do trust that some users here would be as worried as myself about introducing bugs that break Braille accessibility to such an extent (though admittedly I don't know how many Braille users play with the Windows console).


Vincent

On 9/10/2019 12:44 PM, Lukasz Golonka wrote:
Hello,

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:13:58 +0200
"Vincent Le Goff" <vincent.legoff.srs@...> wrote:

To us, it might sound like magic indeed!  But as long as the feature is considered still a work in progress, I won't complain. Just don't merge it right now (don't know if it's worth opening an issue to report how Braille support works, or doesn't work, in this setup).
It definitely is. This option would be, and (in the Alpha versions is
already) on by default on recent versions of Windows 10. So if you can
please try with the latest Alpha versions, and if the problem persist
create an issue.

 

On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 05:11 AM, Rob Hudson wrote:
But it doesn't tell us how it will do that.
And it probably never will.   Most deep dives into programming details "sound like doublespeak," period, and trying to make anything complex relatively comprehensible to "the average user" is a fraught proposition to begin with.

You have no need to know exactly how it will do that.  Most of us have no idea how the programs we use to accomplish anything do what they do, nor do we need to.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362  

The color of truth is grey.

           ~ André Gide