locked Where to send suggestions for NVDA?


Fernando Henrique Botelho
 

Dear all,

 

Where should small suggestions for changes or improvements to NVDA be sent?

 

For example, here is one:

 

Right now the command NVDA+S will switch from speech mode talk to speech mode off, to speech mode beeps, and then back.

 

I have no idea why or who uses speech mode beeps, but I suspect it is much less used than the two other modes. It is not just much more rare to need the beeps, but it is also very important to have a quick and easy toggle to turn speech on and off.

 

My suggestion is to have NVDA+S toggle between speech mode talk and speech mode off. And have the speech mode beeps be toggled on and off with a triple press of NVDA+S.

 

Thanks,

 

Fernando

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

There is an add on that will already do this. Next time though submit your stuff in github. You will get a lot of us who can comment and modify code, I am not one of those who can code though.

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On 16 Apr 2021, at 10:06, Fernando Henrique Botelho wrote:

Dear all,

 

Where should small suggestions for changes or improvements to NVDA be sent?

 

For example, here is one:

 

Right now the command NVDA+S will switch from speech mode talk to speech mode off, to speech mode beeps, and then back.

 

I have no idea why or who uses speech mode beeps, but I suspect it is much less used than the two other modes. It is not just much more rare to need the beeps, but it is also very important to have a quick and easy toggle to turn speech on and off.

 

My suggestion is to have NVDA+S toggle between speech mode talk and speech mode off. And have the speech mode beeps be toggled on and off with a triple press of NVDA+S.

 

Thanks,

 

Fernando

 


 

Suggestions can be submitted through GitHub for improvements to or feature requests for NVDA.

That being said, your issue is already solved, and has been for a very long time, by the NoBeepsSpeechMode Add-On.

Every NVDA user needs to look at the Official NVDA Add-Ons Page to see if an add-on might happen to exist that addresses a legitimate desire like this one.  But there are people who use beeps speech mode (and that wouldn't be me) and it needs to be an option as part of the core functionality.  An add-on can eliminate it for those who, like both of us, don't use it.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

Hi,

I use beeps as a progress indicator when monitoring NVDA source code compilation.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Suggestions can be submitted through GitHub for improvements to or feature requests for NVDA.

That being said, your issue is already solved, and has been for a very long time, by the NoBeepsSpeechMode Add-On.

Every NVDA user needs to look at the Official NVDA Add-Ons Page to see if an add-on might happen to exist that addresses a legitimate desire like this one.  But there are people who use beeps speech mode (and that wouldn't be me) and it needs to be an option as part of the core functionality.  An add-on can eliminate it for those who, like both of us, don't use it.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
I use beeps as a progress indicator
-
So far, everyone who's expressed that they use it seems to use it in precisely this way, as far as progress monitoring.  It's a lot less intrusive than constant blabbering when all you want to know is whether something's finished yet or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Chris Smart
 

and, it's fun when several progress bars take off very quickly, one after another after another.



On 2021-04-16 1:16 p.m., Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
I use beeps as a progress indicator
-
So far, everyone who's expressed that they use it seems to use it in precisely this way, as far as progress monitoring.  It's a lot less intrusive than constant blabbering when all you want to know is whether something's finished yet or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

What follows discusses creating a bug report issue in GitHub for NVDA, but as far as the process goes it's pretty much precisely the same except that you create a Feature Request rather than a bug report.  Even the steps leading up to that, as far as searching GitHub to determine if there may already be an issue, whether bug report or feature request, that's the same as what you are intending to submit are applicable.

You'd pick up in the first tutorial right around, "If you do not find an issue that matches yours, then you move on to creating a new issue using the New Issue button.  If you activate the New Issue button, you begin the sequence by selecting the Get Started button either for a Bug Report or Feature Request."  Then you'd go through creating a Feature Request, which is not documented in that tutorial as that was not its focus.

Creating an Issue in GitHub for NVDA

Creating a Github Account

MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Pre and Post Filling-Out Instructions

MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Only Post Filling-Out Instructions

How to Unprotect a Completed Fillable Word Form so the Entire Document Can Be Copied

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Russell James
 

Brian, thank you, you answered before I could ask!  Russ


On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 1:20 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

What follows discusses creating a bug report issue in GitHub for NVDA, but as far as the process goes it's pretty much precisely the same except that you create a Feature Request rather than a bug report.  Even the steps leading up to that, as far as searching GitHub to determine if there may already be an issue, whether bug report or feature request, that's the same as what you are intending to submit are applicable.

You'd pick up in the first tutorial right around, "If you do not find an issue that matches yours, then you move on to creating a new issue using the New Issue button.  If you activate the New Issue button, you begin the sequence by selecting the Get Started button either for a Bug Report or Feature Request."  Then you'd go through creating a Feature Request, which is not documented in that tutorial as that was not its focus.

Creating an Issue in GitHub for NVDA

Creating a Github Account

MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Pre and Post Filling-Out Instructions

MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Only Post Filling-Out Instructions

How to Unprotect a Completed Fillable Word Form so the Entire Document Can Be Copied

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Chris
 

From: Fernando Henrique Botelho
Sent: 16 April 2021 18:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Dear all,

 

Where should small suggestions for changes or improvements to NVDA be sent?

 

For example, here is one:

 

Right now the command NVDA+S will switch from speech mode talk to speech mode off, to speech mode beeps, and then back.

 

I have no idea why or who uses speech mode beeps, but I suspect it is much less used than the two other modes. It is not just much more rare to need the beeps, but it is also very important to have a quick and easy toggle to turn speech on and off.

 

My suggestion is to have NVDA+S toggle between speech mode talk and speech mode off. And have the speech mode beeps be toggled on and off with a triple press of NVDA+S.

 

Thanks,

 

Fernando

 

 


Rui Fontes
 

Joseph, Fernando don't mean those bips...

If you select bips with Insert+S NVDA do not talk and send only a bip...


Rui Fontes


Às 18:13 de 16/04/2021, Joseph Lee escreveu:

Hi,

I use beeps as a progress indicator when monitoring NVDA source code compilation.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2021 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Suggestions can be submitted through GitHub for improvements to or feature requests for NVDA.

That being said, your issue is already solved, and has been for a very long time, by the NoBeepsSpeechMode Add-On.

Every NVDA user needs to look at the Official NVDA Add-Ons Page to see if an add-on might happen to exist that addresses a legitimate desire like this one.  But there are people who use beeps speech mode (and that wouldn't be me) and it needs to be an option as part of the core functionality.  An add-on can eliminate it for those who, like both of us, don't use it.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Fernando Henrique Botelho
 

Thank you very much for this link. I will check it out.

 

Just to clarify: I am not against the feature of beeps in place of speech, even though I do not know why would anyone use it. I am just suggesting a change in the NVDA interface, so an add-on is no longer needed.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

Fernando

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: Friday, 16 April 2021 15:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Theres already an add-on for that

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/noBeepsSpeechMode.en.html

 

 

From: Fernando Henrique Botelho
Sent: 16 April 2021 18:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Dear all,

 

Where should small suggestions for changes or improvements to NVDA be sent?

 

For example, here is one:

 

Right now the command NVDA+S will switch from speech mode talk to speech mode off, to speech mode beeps, and then back.

 

I have no idea why or who uses speech mode beeps, but I suspect it is much less used than the two other modes. It is not just much more rare to need the beeps, but it is also very important to have a quick and easy toggle to turn speech on and off.

 

My suggestion is to have NVDA+S toggle between speech mode talk and speech mode off. And have the speech mode beeps be toggled on and off with a triple press of NVDA+S.

 

Thanks,

 

Fernando

 

 


Chris
 

Its speech and beeps , not just beeps instead of  speech

 

 

From: Fernando Henrique Botelho
Sent: 16 April 2021 20:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Thank you very much for this link. I will check it out.

 

Just to clarify: I am not against the feature of beeps in place of speech, even though I do not know why would anyone use it. I am just suggesting a change in the NVDA interface, so an add-on is no longer needed.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

Fernando

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris via groups.io
Sent: Friday, 16 April 2021 15:54
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Theres already an add-on for that

 

https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/noBeepsSpeechMode.en.html

 

 

From: Fernando Henrique Botelho
Sent: 16 April 2021 18:07
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

 

Dear all,

 

Where should small suggestions for changes or improvements to NVDA be sent?

 

For example, here is one:

 

Right now the command NVDA+S will switch from speech mode talk to speech mode off, to speech mode beeps, and then back.

 

I have no idea why or who uses speech mode beeps, but I suspect it is much less used than the two other modes. It is not just much more rare to need the beeps, but it is also very important to have a quick and easy toggle to turn speech on and off.

 

My suggestion is to have NVDA+S toggle between speech mode talk and speech mode off. And have the speech mode beeps be toggled on and off with a triple press of NVDA+S.

 

Thanks,

 

Fernando

 

 

 


 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 03:21 PM, Fernando Henrique Botelho wrote:
I am not against the feature of beeps in place of speech, even though I do not know why would anyone use it. I am just suggesting a change in the NVDA interface, so an add-on is no longer needed.
-
And how would that work?  You've had several people tell you that they do use it and how.  The logical place for presenting the beeps speech option is exactly where it is, and since there are a number of people who do use it that's where it should stay.

The add-on fills your need, which prevents the need for tweaking core functionality that others actually do use.  Masking/hiding something that's part of the core functionality is one way this whole add-on concept is supposed to work, .  The other is adding functionality that's not yet, and may never become, part of the NVDA core.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. I used it when I was updatring my wsus offline iso file for windows. But that's about it.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.
Finally, you can support my work on happs, the network of now.

On 16 Apr 2021, at 10:16, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 01:13 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
I use beeps as a progress indicator
-
So far, everyone who's expressed that they use it seems to use it in precisely this way, as far as progress monitoring.  It's a lot less intrusive than constant blabbering when all you want to know is whether something's finished yet or not.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Andre Fisher
 

Hi.

I believe Fernando is on to something here, though. Despite this functionality being in an add-on that is currently stable, I feel like natively NVDA can include a change based on his suggestion. After all, add-ons are created because of a desire by users, and I feel this is longed after by many, including myself. The fact that screen curtain, focus highlight and Windows 10 app support and changes were once add-ons, and are now part of the core of NVDA, says a lot about the possibilities they possess.

Now, I can see this working similarly to the current screen curtain implementation. When the gesture is pressed once, NVDA speech can be toggled to off. If pressed twice quickly, however, NVDA speech can be set to beeps. To turn back on NVDA's speech, just press the gesture once when it is either set to beeps or off.

I honestly think this would be even better than what we have now, as sometimes cycling to the different speech modes can be confusing, especially for someone who may want beeps and is a new NVDA user.

Any thoughts?


Gene
 

I think this is overmanagement. Why is it so difficult to press once for off, then twice for on. This is suchh an insignificant chhange that I see no reason to change it in the core.

And your suggestion may confuse current users, many of whom will probably not read the What's New section where the change is described and won't see information about it in other ways. A lot of those who are used to the current interface might press s twice to turn speech on only to have no speech, but beeps and have no idea why. I can imagine all the messages to the list and to other support places asking why there is no speech and what to do about it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 2:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

Hi.

I believe Fernando is on to something here, though. Despite this functionality being in an add-on that is currently stable, I feel like natively NVDA can include a change based on his suggestion. After all, add-ons are created because of a desire by users, and I feel this is longed after by many, including myself. The fact that screen curtain, focus highlight and Windows 10 app support and changes were once add-ons, and are now part of the core of NVDA, says a lot about the possibilities they possess.

Now, I can see this working similarly to the current screen curtain implementation. When the gesture is pressed once, NVDA speech can be toggled to off. If pressed twice quickly, however, NVDA speech can be set to beeps. To turn back on NVDA's speech, just press the gesture once when it is either set to beeps or off.

I honestly think this would be even better than what we have now, as sometimes cycling to the different speech modes can be confusing, especially for someone who may want beeps and is a new NVDA user.

Any thoughts?


Andre Fisher
 

No.

Once for off, once for on. Twice for beeps, once for on. It's quite simple. A maajority of the NVDA users out there don't use beeps, so pressing twice for beeps would not rattle any new users out there. However, having to press once for off, then twice to turn it back on would certainly turn off new users to the screen reader, who may not know about add-ons and where to find them, or those who may not even be able to install add-ons in certain environments.

Again, look at screen curtain implementation to see what I mean.


Gene
 

You don't understand my point. those who routinely now press once for off, then twice for on, will issue the wrong command if the interface changes and turn on beeps. Unless they know about the change, they will not have speech and may believe there is something wrong.

and people aren't going to be turned off by the current way the interface works. this is a very minor change which would increase convenience in a very minor way for some users.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Fisher
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 2:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

No.

Once for off, once for on. Twice for beeps, once for on. It's quite simple. A maajority of the NVDA users out there don't use beeps, so pressing twice for beeps would not rattle any new users out there. However, having to press once for off, then twice to turn it back on would certainly turn off new users to the screen reader, who may not know about add-ons and where to find them, or those who may not even be able to install add-ons in certain environments.

Again, look at screen curtain implementation to see what I mean.


Luke Davis
 

I think a more reasonable solution to this would be to include a checkbox somewhere in NVDA settings, called "disable beeps speech mode".
In other words: make the current add-on part of core, behind a checkbox, maybe in advanced.

Related issue:
Changing the pitch of the beeps: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9308

Luke

Andre Fisher wrote:

Once for off, once for on. Twice for beeps, once for on. It's quite simple. A maajority of the NVDA users out there don't use beeps, so pressing twice for
beeps would not rattle any new users out there. However, having to press once for off, then twice to turn it back on would certainly turn off new users to
the screen reader, who may not know about add-ons and where to find them, or those who may not even be able to install add-ons in certain environments.


David Goldfield
 

I honestly can't believe this is that big of a deal. Since some people value the setting of having beeps and as we do have an addon to block the setting from being shown may I ask why on earth this is even a thing? Those who like the feature obviously have a use for it. Those who don't need it can simply ignore it or installing an addon. I realize I can easily suppress this thread and I may well do so but is this really all that important? There are many screen reader features that I personally don't need or use. I ignore them. Can't others just do the same and get on with bigger issues?


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019
Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2021 5:09 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Where to send suggestions for NVDA?

I think a more reasonable solution to this would be to include a checkbox somewhere in NVDA settings, called "disable beeps speech mode".
In other words: make the current add-on part of core, behind a checkbox, maybe in advanced.

Related issue:
Changing the pitch of the beeps: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fnvaccess%2Fnvda%2Fissues%2F9308&;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0cf0165ba34d458882b408d901e5056a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637542905410273245%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=l6K9hkP%2FWg%2BJvWrI1udpmoJtxY28GuOvro%2BCRhRyse4%3D&amp;reserved=0

Luke

Andre Fisher wrote:

Once for off, once for on. Twice for beeps, once for on. It's quite
simple. A maajority of the NVDA users out there don't use beeps, so
pressing twice for beeps would not rattle any new users out there. However, having to press once for off, then twice to turn it back on would certainly turn off new users to the screen reader, who may not know about add-ons and where to find them, or those who may not even be able to install add-ons in certain environments.