Topics

Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?


Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows 10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


 

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in order to
run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator. But because
NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go through multiple layers (Python
interpreter on x86, which in turn will run on top of x86 emulator) just to
get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA does come with the same library for
communicating with certain apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower
than running on a 64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM
version of NVDA Helper library is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully support
them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat enhanced in
subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you what the target
machine architecture for an app is, so using Python Console, you can figure
out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit x86 or ARM app. This will get
a bit interesting (and slightly complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM
comes with an emulator for 64-bit x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am
just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of
an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA comes with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in the new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable on such an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in order to
run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator. But because
NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go through multiple layers (Python
interpreter on x86, which in turn will run on top of x86 emulator) just to
get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA does come with the same library for
communicating with certain apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower
than running on a 64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM
version of NVDA Helper library is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully support
them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat enhanced in
subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you what the target
machine architecture for an app is, so using Python Console, you can figure
out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit x86 or ARM app. This will get
a bit interesting (and slightly complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM
comes with an emulator for 64-bit x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am
just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of
an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam









 

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM for
MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to work
better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA comes
with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in the
new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable on such
an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn will
run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA
does come with the same library for communicating with certain apps,
so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a 64-bit AMD
or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for 64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I
am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in
the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam









 

Well technically it may.

This is because x86 and 64 standard emulation will be about.

However I'd hold off a little bit.

Firstly win10 x is due to go out according to winaero.com.

Its supposed to have emulation out the box but some may come later on to.

Right now its not certain if x86-64 desktop emulation will make it to release 1.

Oh and it is release 1, no one has actually seen it and such yet so who knows if it will work or not.

The other thing is that next year, towards year's end windows 10 is having an interface revamp and aparently that may shake things up a bit.

Now maybe in 2022 I'd try to get an arm unit but not just yet.

On 1/12/2020 4:59 am, Adam Samec wrote:
Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in the Windows 10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam



.


Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Yes, so far Windows on ARM is licensed only for certain OEMs, but this can change in the future. So I was curious if there is somebody using an ARM-based PC who could confirm if NVDA runs stable on it.

Also can you confirm whether there are plans to build NVDA for the ARM processors?

Thanks.

Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 19:35, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM for
MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to work
better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA comes
with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in the
new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable on such
an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn will
run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully, NVDA
does come with the same library for communicating with certain apps,
so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a 64-bit AMD
or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for 64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I
am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in
the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


















 

Hi,
As for building NVDA for ARM, not likely, as we want to make sure many
people get to use NVDA with just one installer, so we have to go through
common denominator.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Yes, so far Windows on ARM is licensed only for certain OEMs, but this can
change in the future. So I was curious if there is somebody using an
ARM-based PC who could confirm if NVDA runs stable on it.

Also can you confirm whether there are plans to build NVDA for the ARM
processors?

Thanks.

Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 19:35, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM
for MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to
work better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA
comes with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in
the new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable
on such an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in
practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn
will run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully,
NVDA does come with the same library for communicating with certain
apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a
64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of
NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for
64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I
am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in
the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam


















Adam Samec <adam.samec@...>
 

Okay, thanks to both of you.

Please let me then return to the original question to which I haven't received a clear answer yet. Will NVDA be stable when used with both the 32-bit and 64-bit apps in Windows 10 on ARM? Because Narrator, for instance, supposedly have some problems with the 64-bit apps in the ARM version of Windows 10.

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 23:59, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
As for building NVDA for ARM, not likely, as we want to make sure many
people get to use NVDA with just one installer, so we have to go through
common denominator.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Yes, so far Windows on ARM is licensed only for certain OEMs, but this can
change in the future. So I was curious if there is somebody using an
ARM-based PC who could confirm if NVDA runs stable on it.

Also can you confirm whether there are plans to build NVDA for the ARM
processors?

Thanks.

Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 19:35, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM
for MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to
work better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA
comes with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in
the new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be stable
on such an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in
practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn
will run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully,
NVDA does come with the same library for communicating with certain
apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a
64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of
NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or 64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for
64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and I
am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well in
the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam



























 

Hi,
Speaking for myself, I cannot give you a definitive answer as I don't have
an ARM machine with Windows 10 on it to test this scenario for you. Sorry.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam Samec
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Okay, thanks to both of you.

Please let me then return to the original question to which I haven't
received a clear answer yet. Will NVDA be stable when used with both the
32-bit and 64-bit apps in Windows 10 on ARM? Because Narrator, for instance,
supposedly have some problems with the 64-bit apps in the ARM version of
Windows 10.

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 23:59, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
As for building NVDA for ARM, not likely, as we want to make sure many
people get to use NVDA with just one installer, so we have to go
through common denominator.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 2:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Yes, so far Windows on ARM is licensed only for certain OEMs, but this
can change in the future. So I was curious if there is somebody using
an ARM-based PC who could confirm if NVDA runs stable on it.

Also can you confirm whether there are plans to build NVDA for the ARM
processors?

Thanks.

Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 19:35, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
It might be possible to run NVDA on a Windows 10 on ARM running on M1
processor. Note that Microsoft didn't truly release Windows 10 on ARM
for MacBook Air yet.
As for the library I mentioned, it is a module that allows NVDA to
work better with certain apps, especially when using web browsers.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello Joseph,

thanks for the reply. Though I didn't get it entirely. You mean NVDA
comes with a library same as what? Could you elaborate on that more?

Let's say I have a fast ARM processor, like that which is included in
the new MacBook Air with the M1 chip. Do you think NVDA will be
stable on such an ARM-based environment?

Kind regards
Adam

30. 11. 2020 v 18:34, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>:

Hi,
What I'm about to say is theoretical, but might be applicable in
practice:
I expect NVDA to be slow in Windows 10 on ARM. As you may know, in
order to run x86 (32-bit) code, Windows 10 on ARM comes with an
emulator. But because NVDA is a Python-based software, it must go
through multiple layers (Python interpreter on x86, which in turn
will run on top of x86 emulator) just to get it to run. Thankfully,
NVDA does come with the same library for communicating with certain
apps, so it might be a bit fast (still slower than running on a
64-bit AMD or Intel processor); for reference, the ARM version of
NVDA Helper library
is also compiled when compiling NVDA.
As for working with ARM apps, foundations are in place to fully
support them. The initial work was made in 2017, which was somewhat
enhanced in subsequent releases. In NVDA 2020.3, NVDA can tell you
what the target machine architecture for an app is, so using Python
Console, you can figure out if you're dealing with a 32-bit or
64-bit
x86 or ARM app. This will get a bit interesting (and slightly
complicated) soon when Windows 10 on ARM comes with an emulator for
64-bit
x86 code.
Cheers,
Joseph


-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adam
Samec
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Will NVDA work smoothly in Windows 10 on ARM?

Hello,

I am considering buying a notebook with an ARM-based processor, and
I am just wondering whether the x86 version of NVDA will work well
in the Windows
10 on ARM version of Windows. If not, are there plans for the
development of an ARM-based version of NVDA?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best regards

Adam