Topics

Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.  Even after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans.  Even then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

 

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi folks,

 

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.  The install of NVDA will fail.

 

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

 

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

 

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens, but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious software has been found.

 

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about the same timeline this time around.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Gene
 

Microsoft updates the virus definitions for Windows 7 and you can download them in the usual way.  I'm not even sure its correct to say that, because MSEE in Windows 7 may use exactly the same definitions as Windows Defender in Windows 10. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Well ms has stopped updating win7 deffs now officially so it won't effect it.

As usual microsoft targets blindness software, I have exclusions for games, recorders and it seems now I will have to do the same to my screen readers and maybe sapi voices?

At this rate I may as well exclude my entire c drive!

How can we the user be secure if we get so many false alarms.



On 7/02/2020 5:13 pm, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.  The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens, but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about the same timeline this time around.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

I don't mind the occasional false positive, but here is the thing.

The following programs are currently trogens.

Virtual recorder, ok so I could use something else but I like it.

Textpal and all the older empowermentzone programs but some have been updated.

All bgt games, we sort of know why so maybe I will cut them a little slack with this one except that you need to do the same excludes to malwarebytes.

Some gmagames, and vb6 games, why is unknown.

The bsc stuff.


Yeah I know half of this is really old software but still.

That list is not huge but its enough for me not to trust things.

Now its expanded to nvda and who knows what else.

Its like the story about that boy that cried wolf.

I no longer believe that what my antivirus software is telling me is true.

So I just exclude the file.

I in fact have a different downloads folder for stuff that doesn't run nicely.

Here is the thing, any certified software seems to have a good time with it, that includes microsoft's own software.

Everything else has the potential to be wrongly recognised as something.

In the beginning I could trust the programs I used, a few of my friends and I have the same issue, true, some of my friends take risks I do not.

Sadly how to know if it is or not is unknown.

To put it bluntly now I know that a lot of stuff is targeted it tends to make my scanner very noisy.

I know that at least 100 files and folders on my drive will be misdetected.

I have had it where documents and some audio is a virus, granted those files didn't work and I replaced them so who knows, however, not much to tell if I have this noise.

Otherwise I actually agree with you in fact thats what it was like from 2000-2010 or there abouts.

Suddenly stuff that worked no longer worked.

Its the inconsistancy I just do not understand or in fact like.

I agree at least I don't get a misdetection of an actual virus, but how would I know.

Every time I get a new program, its either a trogen because the virus checker says it is or its not.

Bgt stuff with their packed files are always false so I exclude them once I have the structure of the files.

Its why a lot of devs are moving to python probably helped by the fact nvda is written in it and everyone wants to see what it can do.

To be honest the only thing one can use is virustotal and I really wish I could have virustotal as my virus scanner of choice and protection system because it uses more than 1 source.

With fibre and the like it should be possible.

I have also had inconsistancies with scanners and with some scans.

Ie its protection scan says its not but its shield says it is.

Its not happened to me but I don't take risks, I do know people on some of my networks who need to make sure they always have a backup.

If something goes down and you don't know, system doesn't reboot, so you just make it boot and you know what I mean.

Point is, if my scanner of choice is so noisy, I'm going to have to do something about it.

That means excluding the programs from being scanned.

If I was a hacker, my first port of call would be the exclude list and see what is excluded and oh dear, there you go.

I don't have my backup drives on all day long but still.

Its a pitty there is no actual exclusion list for certain things, obviously a universal one would be to huge but, still.

There is of course the tear it all down and build it back up approach but its just about the only approach if it really goes.

I could say its not good enough but there you go.

Round and round and round we will go till one of us stops.

This topic and rant has graced many lists and forums, my blog, the blog a tech friend and I use and others.

The solution is that there isn't exactly one that really works we just have to keep dodging bullets and hoping we don't screw something up by excluding the wrong folder.

I for example will probably keep old nvda about so at least things will work and exclude it from being scanned just in case.

But its a poor solution.

I think its supposed to be fixed so lets hope it is.



On 8/02/2020 3:23 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 05:04 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
If it wants to flag them as "suspicious because XYZ" (and give reasoning) that's one thing, but don't categorically assert it's a virus when you don't know that.
 
If they were to do that, many would ignore the warning (if they could).   This happens.  It will always happen.  Organizations such as NVAccess report (as do users) and it gets resolved.  The system isn't perfect, but I'd prefer the occasional false positive to a single false negative.

Someone such as yourself, Quentin, certainly knows that error messages of any sort are not typically very refined in what they present.  Ideally, they'd be a lot more descriptive and accurate, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 

Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.  Even after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans.  Even then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

 

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi folks,

 

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.  The install of NVDA will fail.

 

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

 

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

 

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens, but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious software has been found.

 

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about the same timeline this time around.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I have over excluded because of all this going on.

On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

 

false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
etc.
not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
there method and the level of there reliability.
in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
ofline email for you,
but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
have over excluded because of all this going on.


On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak
NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus, I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.

On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
etc.
not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
there method and the level of there reliability.
in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
ofline email for you,
but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
have over excluded because of all this going on.


On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak
NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

coffeekingms@hotmail.com
 

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot something self contained to work with. The images would have to be accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
> false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
> never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
> etc.
> not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
> there method and the level of there reliability.
> in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
> ofline email for you,
> but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
> God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.
>
> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.
>>
>> Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.
>>
>> Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
>> them detect more false than well who knows.
>>
>> I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
>> false alarms.
>>
>> Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
>> problem.
>>
>> It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
>> your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
>> state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.
>>
>> The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
>> know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.
>>
>> I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
>> from getting any serious security software.
>>
>> If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
>> false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
>> antivirus will say.
>>
>> But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
>> on the detections and stuff used.
>>
>> And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
>> is much control.
>>
>> If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
>> it will stay fixed.
>>
>> As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.
>>
>> As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
>> by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
>> a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
>> security subsystem.
>>
>> However there is always the if factor so I don't.
>>
>> I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
>> run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.
>>
>> With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
>> software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
>> certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
>> do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
>> have is not a problem or something.
>>
>> I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
>> blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
>> trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
>> other systems yet.
>>
>> Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
>> have over excluded because of all this going on.
>>
>>
>> On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
>>> Shaun,
>>> did i understand it correctly?
>>> i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
>>> scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
>>> files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
>>> and video files?
>>> i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
>>> someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
>>> folders from scanning by deffender.
>>> his tutorial was for windows ten.
>>> does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
>>> it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
>>> informing us about this matter?
>>>
>>> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>>> Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
>>>> viruses.
>>>>
>>>> At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
>>>> using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
>>>> control on at 33% by default.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Quenton,
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
>>>>> version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are
>>>>> familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
>>>>> after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
>>>>> updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and
>>>>> manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
>>>>> then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It
>>>>> never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
>>>>> up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
>>>>> with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps
>>>>>> Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't
>>>>>> updated to the latest definitions maybe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
>>>>>> <mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Hi Group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       I also do not have this issue with RC3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>>>>>>       Hi, Quentin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
>>>>>>>       wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
>>>>>>> side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Rosemarie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>       *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       *Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Hi folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
>>>>>>>       Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install
>>>>>>>       the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
>>>>>>>       alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
>>>>>>>       The install of NVDA will fail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
>>>>>>>       RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak
>>>>>>> NG.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
>>>>>>>       uses a different build of eSpeak NG).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I
>>>>>>>       have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
>>>>>>>       else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our
>>>>>>>       program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found
>>>>>>>       a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
>>>>>>>       that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
>>>>>>>       but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
>>>>>>>       software has been found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
>>>>>>>       NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
>>>>>>>       the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>       Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>       They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>>>       They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>>>       I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

David Goldfield
 

Zahra,

There is always a risk that antimalware programs may accidentally remove an important program or a component of a program because it could mistakenly conclude that the program in question is malware. It has happened and there have been occasions where a program or other component of a screen reader was mistakenly flagged as a virus. However, this type of occurrence, while extremely inconvenient when it happens, is also extremely rare. I've been using computers running Windows since 1994 and have used a variety of antivirus programs during that time and I have never had my screen reader flagged as a virus or trojan. Yes, it can happen but the risk of this happening is low. However, if you plan on using a computer for anything more than writing simple documents trust me when I say that having a good antimalware solution running on your computer is absolutely essential and the benefits far outweigh these small risks. A doctor may mistakenly diagnose your cold symptoms for a more serious condition but the benefits of regularly seeing a physician far outweigh such risks. Windows Defender is now a very good security program. I would encourage you to just enjoy using your computer and to know that, if such a false positive does occur, the developer of that piece of software will do everything to ensure that their software is no longer flagged as a virus as soon as the antimalware vendor can be shown that a mistake has been made.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/8/2020 1:18 AM, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fpost%2Fnvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=hkjrdZkPgVfA2LHS9r4xwmyXoTAyQiai1MivB5AUytc%3D&amp;reserved=0

Web: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.nvaccess.org&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=KwCii1AmrmaxYNmz03BKZ1VBQyKJYnS30TXmDu%2B7NjY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=omVhOia%2BBqT7WRpDBQVLce7XtkYcAkfLPkHLwovquFI%3D&amp;reserved=0>

Training: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=wuYkeIdxLdgjREfjL7%2FWmbWGeQ%2FTw937qSkbtzfay%2BY%3D&amp;reserved=0

Certification: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=zuz2DcIzQHgTeGgj8zKiJo%2FIqZriwT3644e3sY53bRM%3D&amp;reserved=0

User group: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnvda.groups.io%2Fg%2Fnvda&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=j8c0iRm6d0u2rL9Gn0kyA0feH2JoyDH4bmEFY4N9E5I%3D&amp;reserved=0

Facebook: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=AQq9TOCa8GZGV70dCYWEG7zqM%2BAbj%2B2JuYcqRVDPcWM%3D&amp;reserved=0
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=JIlht%2FcLkUzOCA%2B%2BQgIhfRhLqR442W1IoPIQRCulsnQ%3D&amp;reserved=0>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fpost%2Fnvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=PxPAcRh7kNg01YLd4zgUXqewkmkL%2FJ6pXBLje1DwbUs%3D&amp;reserved=0

Web: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.nvaccess.org&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=Wdwpy%2BAt0corQihnH9Y5uGZTHTkz3ag3GU0gitRUR6w%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=gMIt%2BRYVkHeFE6%2BOmWn%2FxL6yiLehK%2Bc9xNaPPduMo4o%3D&amp;reserved=0>
Training: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=ezv4NUSx0VmiGzWCwbBNQFaWnEwgJUBEcKCncL1HMXo%3D&amp;reserved=0
Certification: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=o8eolpoNDethwRAOmQSFMtYwvsR0uEvio5h8NdEoHS0%3D&amp;reserved=0
User group: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnvda.groups.io%2Fg%2Fnvda&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=r5M%2FFfUs%2Bf0BF7%2FZSJqpae6IdMHuN430pN0TZWZtMfk%3D&amp;reserved=0
Facebook: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=AQq9TOCa8GZGV70dCYWEG7zqM%2BAbj%2B2JuYcqRVDPcWM%3D&amp;reserved=0
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=JIlht%2FcLkUzOCA%2B%2BQgIhfRhLqR442W1IoPIQRCulsnQ%3D&amp;reserved=0>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

brian
 

    I have not had this issue and I have the latest version of windows 10 and the latest update for windows security I check for updates every morning when I turn my computer on.  This is one of theese things that effects some users and not others.

Brian Sackrider

On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

 

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

 

Rosemarie

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi folks,

 

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.  The install of NVDA will fail.

 

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

 

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

 

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens, but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious software has been found.

 

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about the same timeline this time around.  Apologies for the inconvenience.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Sarah k Alawami
 

In my case I have had it take away exe files such as flight following and do it with out warning. And that by the way is with pythin 3.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Feb 2020, at 22:18, zahra wrote:

Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

Hmmm I would really like some sort of antivirus/antimalware program that you could add an exclude list to, and freely share it about.

In the list I would like:

1.  the name of the file and where it came from, and also a reason why I excluded it.

I would also like the program to scan all my excludes and then send the files to various companies etc after testing them with say virustotal and such and have them fixed in the rightt databases.

I'd actually like a virustotal protection and on demand scanner but thats probably not possible.

There are various talking winpe disks about.

The easiest way to make the thing work for linux would to use something ubuntu mate which is easy to use or something like grml/ debian in command mode.

I've not actually managed to get many distros work out of the box.



On 9/02/2020 1:13 am, coffeekingms@... wrote:

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot something self contained to work with. The images would have to be accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
> false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
> never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
> etc.
> not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
> there method and the level of there reliability.
> in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
> ofline email for you,
> but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
> God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.
>
> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.
>>
>> Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.
>>
>> Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
>> them detect more false than well who knows.
>>
>> I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
>> false alarms.
>>
>> Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
>> problem.
>>
>> It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
>> your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
>> state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.
>>
>> The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
>> know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.
>>
>> I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
>> from getting any serious security software.
>>
>> If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
>> false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
>> antivirus will say.
>>
>> But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
>> on the detections and stuff used.
>>
>> And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
>> is much control.
>>
>> If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
>> it will stay fixed.
>>
>> As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.
>>
>> As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
>> by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
>> a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
>> security subsystem.
>>
>> However there is always the if factor so I don't.
>>
>> I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
>> run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.
>>
>> With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
>> software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
>> certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
>> do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
>> have is not a problem or something.
>>
>> I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
>> blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
>> trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
>> other systems yet.
>>
>> Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
>> have over excluded because of all this going on.
>>
>>
>> On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
>>> Shaun,
>>> did i understand it correctly?
>>> i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
>>> scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
>>> files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
>>> and video files?
>>> i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
>>> someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
>>> folders from scanning by deffender.
>>> his tutorial was for windows ten.
>>> does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
>>> it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
>>> informing us about this matter?
>>>
>>> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>>> Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
>>>> viruses.
>>>>
>>>> At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
>>>> using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
>>>> control on at 33% by default.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Quenton,
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
>>>>> version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are
>>>>> familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
>>>>> after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
>>>>> updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and
>>>>> manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
>>>>> then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It
>>>>> never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
>>>>> up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
>>>>> with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps
>>>>>> Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't
>>>>>> updated to the latest definitions maybe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
>>>>>> <mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Hi Group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       I also do not have this issue with RC3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>>>>>>       Hi, Quentin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
>>>>>>>       wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
>>>>>>> side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Rosemarie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>       *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       *Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Hi folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
>>>>>>>       Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install
>>>>>>>       the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
>>>>>>>       alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
>>>>>>>       The install of NVDA will fail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
>>>>>>>       RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak
>>>>>>> NG.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
>>>>>>>       uses a different build of eSpeak NG).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I
>>>>>>>       have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
>>>>>>>       else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our
>>>>>>>       program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found
>>>>>>>       a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
>>>>>>>       that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
>>>>>>>       but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
>>>>>>>       software has been found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
>>>>>>>       NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
>>>>>>>       the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>       Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>       They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>>>       They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>>>       I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

 

Well true, that excludes bgt stuff most likely and if the dev is dead like the one that did virtual recorder.

Most of my false positives are bgt programs.


Some of the hacker geeks on the audiogames forum suspect why that is, but that does mean that for a lot of things especially older software it needs to be excluded.

For the newer stuff thats about, there is enough word out there that compiled bgt code because of how its done is behaving exactly like a virus so devs that can are switching to python for game programming or similar.

Of course those that can.

I know some of the gma stuff is like that, the bsc stuff is also being flagged and since the dev is not doing that anymore its unlikely he will report it same with bgt since the dev has left it alone due to it using older tech.

Its eventually supposed to be getting redone, but he is keeping his secrets close to his chest though when people ask he keeps saying things are coming and they are big so we have to wait.

Thing is, I know what the false positives actually are, but thats no help if there is no actual way to send via email to someone to say that certain programs are not a problem.

And I guess thats what happens with older programs.

I'd idealy like something that would scan all the programs I had, and flag things as a problem but instead of doing anything immediately allow me to exclude and report or simply exclude all the stuff I know is false and report it all at once.

On 9/02/2020 1:24 am, David Goldfield wrote:
Zahra,

There is always a risk that antimalware programs may accidentally remove an important program or a component of a program because it could mistakenly conclude that the program in question is malware. It has happened and there have been occasions where a program or other component of a screen reader was mistakenly flagged as a virus. However, this type of occurrence, while extremely inconvenient when it happens, is also extremely rare. I've been using computers running Windows since 1994 and have used a variety of antivirus programs during that time and I have never had my screen reader flagged as a virus or trojan. Yes, it can happen but the risk of this happening is low. However, if you plan on using a computer for anything more than writing simple documents trust me when I say that having a good antimalware solution running on your computer is absolutely essential and the benefits far outweigh these small risks. A doctor may mistakenly diagnose your cold symptoms for a more serious condition but the benefits of regularly seeing a physician far outweigh such risks. Windows Defender is now a very good security program. I would encourage you to just enjoy using your computer and to know that, if such a false positive does occur, the developer of that piece of software will do everything to ensure that their software is no longer flagged as a virus as soon as the antimalware vendor can be shown that a mistake has been made.


David Goldfield,
Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
JAWS Certified, 2019

WWW.DavidGoldfield.org

On 2/8/2020 1:18 AM, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

     Hi Group,

     I also do not have this issue with RC3.


     On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
     Hi, Quentin,

     I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
     wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

     Rosemarie

     *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
     [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
     *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
     *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
     *Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

     Hi folks,

     It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
     Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install
     the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
     alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
     The install of NVDA will fail.

     As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
     RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

     NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
     uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

     I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I
     have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
     else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our
     program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found
     a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
     that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
     but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
     software has been found.

     It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
     NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
     the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

     --

     Quentin Christensen
     Training and Support Manager

     NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fpost%2Fnvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=hkjrdZkPgVfA2LHS9r4xwmyXoTAyQiai1MivB5AUytc%3D&amp;reserved=0

     Web: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.nvaccess.org&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=KwCii1AmrmaxYNmz03BKZ1VBQyKJYnS30TXmDu%2B7NjY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=omVhOia%2BBqT7WRpDBQVLce7XtkYcAkfLPkHLwovquFI%3D&amp;reserved=0>

     Training: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=wuYkeIdxLdgjREfjL7%2FWmbWGeQ%2FTw937qSkbtzfay%2BY%3D&amp;reserved=0

     Certification: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcertification.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=zuz2DcIzQHgTeGgj8zKiJo%2FIqZriwT3644e3sY53bRM%3D&amp;reserved=0

     User group: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnvda.groups.io%2Fg%2Fnvda&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077639371&amp;sdata=j8c0iRm6d0u2rL9Gn0kyA0feH2JoyDH4bmEFY4N9E5I%3D&amp;reserved=0

     Facebook: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=AQq9TOCa8GZGV70dCYWEG7zqM%2BAbj%2B2JuYcqRVDPcWM%3D&amp;reserved=0
     Twitter: @NVAccess <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FNVAccess&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=JIlht%2FcLkUzOCA%2B%2BQgIhfRhLqR442W1IoPIQRCulsnQ%3D&amp;reserved=0>
     --
     They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
     They ask: "How Happy are You?"
     I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fpost%2Fnvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=PxPAcRh7kNg01YLd4zgUXqewkmkL%2FJ6pXBLje1DwbUs%3D&amp;reserved=0

Web: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.nvaccess.org&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=Wdwpy%2BAt0corQihnH9Y5uGZTHTkz3ag3GU0gitRUR6w%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=gMIt%2BRYVkHeFE6%2BOmWn%2FxL6yiLehK%2Bc9xNaPPduMo4o%3D&amp;reserved=0>
Training: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2Fshop%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C2ae427dfc8ba4df896fb08d7ac5eb5dd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637167395077649366&amp;sdata=ezv4NUSx0VmiGzWCwbBNQFaWnEwgJUBEcKCncL1HMXo%3D&amp;reserved=0
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--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


.

 

Hmmm this is a concern.

Python3 is a new upgraded language, but if its getting misreported like this maybe nvda should stay with python2 till its fixed.




On 9/02/2020 7:36 am, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have had it take away exe files such as flight following and do it with out warning. And that by the way is with pythin 3.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 7 Feb 2020, at 22:18, zahra wrote:

Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use eSpeak NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

but i realy dont trust any security program and never use them.
i am waiting for your email, but did not recieve your reply.
did you recieve my email in the first days of new year?

On 2/9/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Hmmm I would really like some sort of antivirus/antimalware program that
you could add an exclude list to, and freely share it about.

In the list I would like:

1. the name of the file and where it came from, and also a reason why I
excluded it.

I would also like the program to scan all my excludes and then send the
files to various companies etc after testing them with say virustotal
and such and have them fixed in the rightt databases.

I'd actually like a virustotal protection and on demand scanner but
thats probably not possible.

There are various talking winpe disks about.

The easiest way to make the thing work for linux would to use something
ubuntu mate which is easy to use or something like grml/ debian in
command mode.

I've not actually managed to get many distros work out of the box.



On 9/02/2020 1:13 am, coffeekingms@... wrote:

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I
see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO
images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that
can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove
any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to
exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus
detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect
solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you
like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your
computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot
something self contained to work with. The images would have to be
accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure
anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s
for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to
put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an
expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to
try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might
not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is
another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want
to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a
flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a
functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Shaun Everiss <mailto:@smeveriss>
*Sent: *Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to
behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
etc.
not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
there method and the level of there reliability.
in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
ofline email for you,
but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for
your answer!
God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is
not a
problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report
all
your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual
viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped
me
from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to
think
it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software
noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer
caused
by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have
half
a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this
issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a
security
certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software
I
have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with
out
blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any
of my
other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe
I
have over excluded because of all this going on.


On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our
desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude
things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.
Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at
start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and
Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA
on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using
espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the
safe
side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin
Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our
turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to
install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked
it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy
of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use
eSpeak
NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak
NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as
well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage
everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being
our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has
NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has
guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that
happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be
within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 03:29 AM, zahra wrote:
but i realy dont trust any security program and never use them.
And you continue to insist on using Windows XP and ignoring any piece of advice offered by any subject-matter expert.  So . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Why don't you trust security programs? They're there for your protection. I won't say anything more.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: Sunday, February 9, 2020 12:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

but i realy dont trust any security program and never use them.
i am waiting for your email, but did not recieve your reply.
did you recieve my email in the first days of new year?

On 2/9/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Hmmm I would really like some sort of antivirus/antimalware program
that you could add an exclude list to, and freely share it about.

In the list I would like:

1. the name of the file and where it came from, and also a reason why
I excluded it.

I would also like the program to scan all my excludes and then send
the files to various companies etc after testing them with say
virustotal and such and have them fixed in the rightt databases.

I'd actually like a virustotal protection and on demand scanner but
thats probably not possible.

There are various talking winpe disks about.

The easiest way to make the thing work for linux would to use
something ubuntu mate which is easy to use or something like grml/
debian in command mode.

I've not actually managed to get many distros work out of the box.



On 9/02/2020 1:13 am, coffeekingms@... wrote:

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I
see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO
images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that
can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and
remove any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way
to exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus
detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect
solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you
like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your
computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot
something self contained to work with. The images would have to be
accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure
anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s
for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to
put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an
expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to
try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might
not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is
another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want
to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a
flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a
functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Shaun Everiss <mailto:@smeveriss>
*Sent: *Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to
get it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in
the scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I
make exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by
the software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances
are you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the
cloud as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it
is very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so
called databases there is a chance that something else will be added
to my noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else
can I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a
virus, I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of
the security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and
noisier data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess
is good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old
or that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on
any of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I
don't scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that
all of them are false positives and they never change so I don't
upgrade or anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go
away screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to
behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse
than any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all
my files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that
i never trust and never use security programs, antivirus,
antimalware, etc.
not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar
with there method and the level of there reliability.
in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent
an ofline email for you, but unfortunately i did not recieve your
reply and i am waiting for
your answer!
God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some
of them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot
of false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is
not a
problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could
report all your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for
each you could state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff
we know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual
viruses.

I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly
stopped me from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with
a false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really
good antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus
depending on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level
there is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to
think
it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software
noisy.

As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer
caused
by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I
have
half
a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I
havn't run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because
of this
issue.

With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a
security
certification id or something and while it would be nice to get
one, I do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that
the software I have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems
with out blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs
there are no trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no
excludes on any
of my
other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still,
maybe I have over excluded because of all this going on.


On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and
important files even maybe nvda or even other files including
html, docx, audio and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites, someone recorded
a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired folders
from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things,
and it may removes our essential and important files without
worning or informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't
bother using programs written in it but you should be able to
exclude
things.

Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user
account control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you
are familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.
Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans.
Even then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run
it. It never comes up in start up--even though I have it set
to run at
start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and
Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA
on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender
hasn't updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi
<aa2vm@... <mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using
espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the
safe side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin
Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a
trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our
turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try
to
install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and
blocked it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy
of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use
eSpeak
NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak
NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as
well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage
everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it
being our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has
NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning)
has
guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that
happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be
within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testin
g/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testin
g/

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

Hmmm again not a good idea to not use security at all unless you purely use the cloud or something.

I never recieved any email from you though.

On 9/02/2020 9:29 pm, zahra wrote:
but i realy dont trust any security program and never use them.
i am waiting for your email, but did not recieve your reply.
did you recieve my email in the first days of new year?

On 2/9/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Hmmm I would really like some sort of antivirus/antimalware program that
you could add an exclude list to, and freely share it about.

In the list I would like:

1. the name of the file and where it came from, and also a reason why I
excluded it.

I would also like the program to scan all my excludes and then send the
files to various companies etc after testing them with say virustotal
and such and have them fixed in the rightt databases.

I'd actually like a virustotal protection and on demand scanner but
thats probably not possible.

There are various talking winpe disks about.

The easiest way to make the thing work for linux would to use something
ubuntu mate which is easy to use or something like grml/ debian in
command mode.

I've not actually managed to get many distros work out of the box.



On 9/02/2020 1:13 am, coffeekingms@... wrote:
Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I
see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO
images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that
can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove
any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to
exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus
detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect
solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you
like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your
computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot
something self contained to work with. The images would have to be
accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure
anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s
for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to
put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an
expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to
try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might
not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is
another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want
to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a
flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a
functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10

*From: *Shaun Everiss <mailto:@smeveriss>
*Sent: *Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to
behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
etc.
not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
there method and the level of there reliability.
in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
ofline email for you,
but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for
your answer!
God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.

Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.

Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
them detect more false than well who knows.

I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
false alarms.

Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is
not a
problem.

It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report
all
your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.

The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual
viruses.
I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped
me
from getting any serious security software.

If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
antivirus will say.

But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
on the detections and stuff used.

And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
is much control.

If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to
think
it will stay fixed.

As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software
noisy.
As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer
caused
by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have
half
a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
security subsystem.

However there is always the if factor so I don't.

I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this
issue.
With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a
security
certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software
I
have is not a problem or something.

I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with
out
blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any
of my
other systems yet.

Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe
I
have over excluded because of all this going on.


On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
Shaun,
did i understand it correctly?
i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
and video files?
i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our
desired
folders from scanning by deffender.
his tutorial was for windows ten.
does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
informing us about this matter?

On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <@smeveriss> wrote:
Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
viruses.

At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude
things.
Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
control on at 33% by default.



On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hi Quenton,

In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
version. I have had odd issues with it in the past. If you are
familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently.
Even
after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
updates, it flags it again. I had to go into the settings and
manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it. It
never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at
start
up. I have reported this to both the program developer and
Microsoft
with no change. I am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA
on my
system.


On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage? Perhaps
Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7? Or their Defender hasn't
updated to the latest definitions maybe?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
<mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:

Hi Group,

I also do not have this issue with RC3.


On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, Quentin,

I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using
espeak but I
wonder if I should use something else just to be on the
safe
side.

Rosemarie

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin
Christensen
*Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

Hi folks,

It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our
turn for
Microsoft's random unfounded accusations. If you try to
install
the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked
it.
The install of NVDA will fail.

As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy
of the
RC and that should run fine. You won't be able to use
eSpeak
NG.

NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak
NG (it
uses a different build of eSpeak NG).

I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as
well. I
have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage
everyone
else to as well. To be honest, even aside from it being
our
program affected, this really annoys me. Defender has
NOT found
a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has
guessed
that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that
happens,
but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
software has been found.

It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be
within about
the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
inconvenience.

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:

https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/

User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a
banana boat!"


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Deenadayalan Moodley
 

Hi,

 

Look at Windows PE.  This does work and I have one which is a portable version of Windows on a memory stick with various tools to repair computers, etc.

 

The late Carlos produced these.

 

Thanks.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of coffeekingms@...
Sent: 08 February 2020 02:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Hi

I want to weigh in hear, a bit. I’m no security expert, at all, but I see a couple of possible options hear. Are there any compatible ISO images that can be put on a USB flash drive, windows and Linux, that can be used to scan a drive, backup drives, etc for malware and remove any that is found? Since we’re talking about exclusions, a way to exclude false positives, and remove the negatives? I know virus detection is complicated, and I don’t presume to have a perfect solution, but it’s an option. Have whatever security software you like, whichever works, but have a backup, that is separate from your computer, so if gets infected by something nasty, you can boot something self contained to work with. The images would have to be accessible out of the box, without any setup needed, and I’m not sure anything exists. I know for Linux there’s kali, bt I believe that’s for penetration testing and the like. If not, I’d be happy to try to put something together, if anyone is interested. Again, I’m not an expert, and I’m not even sure how to do this but I’d be willing to try. I’m not sure about the windows licensing and such, so it might not be possible to put a windows based one together, but Linux is another story. I’m not advocating Linux, but … oh hell. I don’t want to start a flame war. Another option is to have backup software on a flash drive that can run from a flash drive, but you’d need a functioning system to run it.

Thanks

Kendell Clark

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan

 

Using no security at all is dumb and stupid.

You should always have some of it.

A false negative means you get a virus and loose stuff.

Thats happened to one of my cousins ironically because he forgot to
update his norton subscription and he lost a lot of stuff, he had to
reformat to make the problem go away.

He couldn't do that himself and had to take the pc to somewhere to get
it fixed, it cost him a lot of cash.

While I am not against using security software in general I am
dissapointed and disheartened at the reasonable amount of noise in the
scans.

I know what the false positives are and what they are but unless I make
exclude lists for my software things will just get destroyed by the
software, don't use it and its worse.

But it depends what you do.

If you just use windows store apps, email via google, etc, chances are
you will be probably fine especially if everything is done in the cloud
as there is some protection there but its not perfect.


I wouldn't go about bragging you do not use security software as it is
very dangerous.

At the same time, it does concern me that every update of the so called
databases there is a chance that something else will be added to my
noisy scan data.

This means I need to lower my security by excluding things.

I do not at any way shape or form feel good about this but what else can
I do.

And I far better be complaining about false alarms than getting a virus,
I just wish things would get easier.

Something changed in the year 2003 which started us down the road of the
security nightmare we are on now.

At first, a few programs, but by 2007 we were seeing noisier and noisier
data and by 2012 it was really bad.

Since 2015 its plattoed at a point not going up or down which I guess is
good, however I'd like it to go back to normal.

I shouldn't get any message from my security software unless I have a
virus and can decide on the action.

Instead I get told I have a virus which is either something new, old or
that has been working before.

Instead of running malwarebytes which I no longer have installed on any
of my systems and full scanns of windows security or others, I don't
scan at all bar a quick scan or so which is done automatically.

Back in the day I would regular do this.

But now my system is infested with a lot of viruses and I know that all
of them are false positives and they never change so I don't upgrade or
anything.

Well I don't use a thirdparty scanner, put it that way.

I started with sophos but it made sure to make all the viruses go away
screwing up my system.

It took me a great deal to reinstall windows from scratch and get
everything back.

The meaning of security software is to at least be a guide to security.

I am more insecure with security software so I have to force it to behave.

At the same time I wouldn't go without it.

All those ransomware attacks, botnets and malwarebreaches are worse than
any false positive.

Yet I really wish they would stop.

I manage a blog and a server on wordpress and do use security software.

And I havn't lost anything that wasn't supposed to be a problem, all my
files are there, no problem.

Yet in user computers companies think they can just do what they want.






On 8/02/2020 10:05 pm, zahra wrote:
> false positive and false negative, are two of the main factors that i
> never trust and never use security programs, antivirus, antimalware,
> etc.
> not sure about firewalls, but i never used and i am not familiar with
> there method and the level of there reliability.
> in the previous weeks, maybe in the first days of new year, i sent an
> ofline email for you,
> but unfortunately i did not recieve your reply and i am waiting for your answer!
> God bless you and thanks so much for your helpful replies as always.
>
> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Just about every antimalware program has this false positive.
>>
>> Kaspersky and a few others are supposed to be better.
>>
>> Anyway what I actually said was that these programs at least some of
>> them detect more false than well who knows.
>>
>> I have never got a virus in the last 10 years but I have got a lot of
>> false alarms.
>>
>> Not sure about win8 etc, but yes you can exclude stuff you know is not a
>> problem.
>>
>> It would be good actually if you excluded the file you could report all
>> your excluded files to the maker like microsoft and for each you could
>> state what it was, etc and maybe get support on it.
>>
>> The issue I have and maybe others, is that while some of the stuff we
>> know about, I spend more time stopping false alarms than actual viruses.
>>
>> I am not sure if thats a good or bad thing but its certainly stopped me
>> from getting any serious security software.
>>
>> If windows defender and malwarebytes cause this much trouble with a
>> false positive, then I really don't want to know what a really good
>> antivirus will say.
>>
>> But basically everything on your system is a potential virus depending
>> on the detections and stuff used.
>>
>> And with the cloud based ai, I doubt that at the automated level there
>> is much control.
>>
>> If you tell them they will fix the issue but there is no reason to think
>> it will stay fixed.
>>
>> As a result all the false alarms make the display of the software noisy.
>>
>> As I said, right now I have so many security holes in my computer caused
>> by so many folder excludes that if it wasn't for ransomware, I have half
>> a mind to exclude my entire hard drive or even disable the windows
>> security subsystem.
>>
>> However there is always the if factor so I don't.
>>
>> I havn't run any full system scans in the last 10 years, and I havn't
>> run any malware software in the last 5 years simply because of this issue.
>>
>> With the so called inteligent stuff about bgt and maybe some older
>> software excluded, it seems that every software package needs a security
>> certification id or something and while it would be nice to get one, I
>> do wander if I could get one myself for the purpose that the software I
>> have is not a problem or something.
>>
>> I know some say I am just unlucky, but on all my other systems with out
>> blind games, blind software and blind accessible programs there are no
>> trogens at all and that in itself is a concern, no excludes on any of my
>> other systems yet.
>>
>> Maybe I may exclude nvda just because I am concerned but still, maybe I
>> have over excluded because of all this going on.
>>
>>
>> On 8/02/2020 7:18 pm, zahra wrote:
>>> Shaun,
>>> did i understand it correctly?
>>> i think that antivirus programs especially microsoft products,
>>> scan the entire system and maybe remove our necessary and important
>>> files even maybe nvda or even other files including html, docx, audio
>>> and video files?
>>> i remember that in one of the iranian websites,
>>> someone recorded a tutorial which explained how to exclude our desired
>>> folders from scanning by deffender.
>>> his tutorial was for windows ten.
>>> does windows deffender on windows 8 and 8.1 does the same things, and
>>> it may removes our essential and important files without worning or
>>> informing us about this matter?
>>>
>>> On 2/8/20, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>>> Yeah some of that software uses autoit and that is known to make
>>>> viruses.
>>>>
>>>> At any rate its clunkey and slow as a language so I wouldn't bother
>>>> using programs written in it but you should be able to exclude things.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah when microsoft security etc cleans things it turns user account
>>>> control on at 33% by default.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/02/2020 3:41 am, Ron Canazzi wrote:
>>>>> Hi Quenton,
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, I always have Defender set to update to the latest
>>>>> version.  I have had odd issues with it in the past.  If you are
>>>>> familiar with Steve's Clock, Defender flagged that consistently. Even
>>>>> after I allowed it under Defender settings, every time Windows
>>>>> updates, it flags it again.  I had to go into the settings and
>>>>> manually exempt the Steve's clock folder from Defender scans. Even
>>>>> then, it always brings up User Account Control when I run it.  It
>>>>> never comes up in start up--even though I have it set to run at start
>>>>> up.  I have reported this to both the program developer and Microsoft
>>>>> with no change.  I  am glad that this isn't happening with NVDA on my
>>>>> system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2020 1:00 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>>>>> I believe this only affects Windows 10 at this stage?  Perhaps
>>>>>> Rosemarie and Ron are using Windows 7?  Or their Defender hasn't
>>>>>> updated to the latest definitions maybe?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 4:30 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...
>>>>>> <mailto:aa2vm@...>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Hi Group,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       I also do not have this issue with RC3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       On 2/7/2020 12:28 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
>>>>>>>       Hi, Quentin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I'm not having this problem on my system. I'm using espeak but I
>>>>>>>       wonder if I should use something else just to be on the safe
>>>>>>> side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Rosemarie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2020 8:14 PM
>>>>>>>       *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>       *Subject:* [nvda] Windows defender marking NVDA a trojan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Hi folks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It was NVDARemote the other week, now it seems it's our turn for
>>>>>>>       Microsoft's random unfounded accusations.  If you try to install
>>>>>>>       the release candidate of NVDA 2019.3, Windows Defender will
>>>>>>>       alert you it has found a trojan in eSpeak NG and blocked it.
>>>>>>>       The install of NVDA will fail.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       As a workaround for now, you can create a portable copy of the
>>>>>>>       RC and that should run fine.  You won't be able to use eSpeak
>>>>>>> NG.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.2.1 installs and runs fine, even using eSpeak NG (it
>>>>>>>       uses a different build of eSpeak NG).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       I am not sure whether this affects Windows 7 users as well.  I
>>>>>>>       have reported it to Microsoft but I would encourage everyone
>>>>>>>       else to as well.  To be honest, even aside from it being our
>>>>>>>       program affected, this really annoys me.  Defender has NOT found
>>>>>>>       a trojan in eSpeak, its heuristic (machine learning) has guessed
>>>>>>>       that it looks a bit suspicious and flagged it - Ok that happens,
>>>>>>>       but say that, don't say absolutely that a known malicious
>>>>>>>       software has been found.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       It took a day or so to fix Defender's virus list and have
>>>>>>>       NVDARemote cleared, so I expect it will probably be within about
>>>>>>>       the same timeline this time around. Apologies for the
>>>>>>> inconvenience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>       Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>       Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>       --
>>>>>>       They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>>>       They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>>>       I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training and Support Manager
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NVDA 2019.3 rc2 now available for testing:
>>>>>> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2019-3rc2-now-available-for-testing/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>>>>> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
>>>>>> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>>>>> --
>>>>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
>>>>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
>>>>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>